Wow

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Nuno
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Re: Wow

Post by Nuno » May 15th, 2011, 7:16 am

Great news! :D

rparker
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Re: Wow

Post by rparker » May 15th, 2011, 9:23 am

cnev, it does not have to be a contest. It's up to you, though.
Roy

"I wonder if a composer ever intentionally composed a piece that was physically impossible to play and stuck it away to be found years later after his death, knowing it would forever drive perfectionist musicians crazy." - George Carlin

almann1979
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Re: Wow

Post by almann1979 » May 15th, 2011, 12:40 pm

Cnev, i know exactly how you feel. There is a kid i teach at school, he's a nice lad and into his heavy metal guitar. When i see him play at first glance he looks awesome, he is really into his sweep picking and has become "mr 100 notes per second".
It really is impressive to watch him play - despite him only being 15.

However, he has been playing since he was 8, so i like to look at it in the sense that, in 7 years, he has gained those skills, and surely, as an adult, with better understanding than a child, and more patience, i should be able to do the same in the same time?

Personally, i believe those who want to get better, like most of us on this board, will, and these kids have no inherited guitar genes. They are not capable of doing more than you, given the same practice time. There is no reason you and I can not reach the ability these kids have.

Also, one thing I have to point out, is that, despite all the great skills this lad at my school has, I know he has a lot of limitations. His application of scales is weak and he struggles to improvise or compose. That does'nt bother him because he likes to play covers and he does it very very well - but i know that he is impressed when he sees somebody just jamming over an unfamiliar backing track - something you and I could easily do, but to him, seems out of reach for now.

I guess what I am trying to say is that, when you see a live gig, you see a polished and rehearsed performance, and probably the best that guitarist has to offer - sometimes that misleads you into thinking the guitarist is better than he actually is. In all honesty, that is my aim when i gig, to make people think i am better than I am, by learning the songs we play as well as i possibly can and drilling it into my practice to the nth degree. But what people see of me when i gig, is the best of me, and not a true reflection of my real ability, which is far below that.

I bet when you have polished a song off to the best of your ability and play it live, these kids will think you rock!
"I like to play that guitar. I have to stare at it while I'm playing it because I'm not very good at playing it."
Noel Gallagher (who took the words right out of my mouth)

TRGuitar
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Re: Wow

Post by TRGuitar » May 15th, 2011, 5:50 pm

Awe come on and show the little punks how its done! :evil: That does it, I'm coming down there and I'll do it myself ...... :mrgreen: Don't let it get to you. Enjoy yourself, keep playing. You are plenty good and will get better.
"Work hard, rock hard, eat hard, sleep hard,
grow big, wear glasses if you need 'em."
-- The Webb Wilder Credo --

cnev
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Re: Wow

Post by cnev » May 16th, 2011, 3:18 am

All these kids have only been playing a few years and like I said these kids aren't the lock themselves in their room for 10 hrs a day and practice type either and neither still takes lessons.

Sure I might be a little awestruck but I've seen enough bands over my lifetime and now having played with other people etc. there is no denying these kids have talent. Yes their father is a pro and he has guided them so sure that might be a bit of it but it's mostly them.

Seeing them wouldn't make me stop but it really is an eye opener especially when you look at the all of the original stuff they've done.

Roy it's not a contest but I think it's human nature to try and compare yourself to other people and this wasn't a good comparison.

TR the reality is they could show most adult bands how it's done. I went to see a Beatles Tribute right after we saw the kids and lame (sorry if that's harsh) is the only word I can use to describe them. Sure they were decent musicians but other than that they did nothing for me I would rather see these kids anyday. The Beatles band looked like a bunch of middle aged music teachers that formed a band. The singer was sitting in a chair and looked like he was reading the lyrics as he went. the guitar player who seemed to be the leader was a control freak. They had like 8 guys in the band too which was overkill to me it didn't make them sound any better.

I will say after having talked with my instructor today I feel a bit better. These kids have the luxury of him basically helping produce all their music so when they practice he's there telling them you need to add a chorus there or drop that part it isn't working etc. So the final originals have all been influenced by him. He also does their sound and they get to play through the top of the line gear, Marshall amps, Gibsons etc and he works out all their sound so yes they do have an advantage over most people that had to struggle finding their sound or making mistakes along the way. He's there to get them through all that.

I did ask him if at 15 is his son better that he was and he did admit that he was.

I guess the one thing that he said that made some sense and made me feel a bit better was that as kids they don't have all the things going on in their lives like we do as adults there brains aren't cluttered with worries about work, family, bills etc so I can understand that a bit, plus I think most kids are like sponges they soak everything up pretty quickly where as as adults that doesn't happen so much.
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It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!

Chris C
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Re: Wow

Post by Chris C » May 16th, 2011, 3:11 pm

cnev wrote: I guess the one thing that he said that made some sense and made me feel a bit better was that as kids they don't have all the things going on in their lives like we do as adults there brains aren't cluttered with worries about work, family, bills etc so I can understand that a bit, plus I think most kids are like sponges they soak everything up pretty quickly where as as adults that doesn't happen so much.
My brain is still a lot like a sponge too...

.... full of holes and rapidly drying out. It's probably been used to wipe up too much junk over the years , and squeezed a little too often. :(

You're right about the intensity of focus that kids have though, and the time to put in. The older you get the harder it is to see something as the all consuming big deal that some things once were. There's good and bad sides to that coin though, so we still do OK. I just keep the pleasant fantasies going and stay on the bus, it's all good. Each day the view gets a little more interesting. :)

Chris

Vic Lewis VL
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Re: Wow

Post by Vic Lewis VL » May 16th, 2011, 5:07 pm

Chris, I used to feel that way every time I went to the pub a few years ago for the Tuesday jam nights - somebody'd play a song and throw in all these fast fills, licks, and runs, and I'd be thinking, "Darn, I've left it too late, I should've started earlier." But you know something? I worked hard on my playing, and soon realised that those guys were great with songs they knew well - I was actually adapting as I went along, playing along with songs I didn't know well - the ones they did know well - but when it came to bringing new songs into the mix, they really didn't want to know at first. With a little help from my friend Stu - who has very similar musical tastes to me - we got together and jammed a few songs, like Stand By Me, Hey Joe, Dock Of The Bay, Substitute, Under The Bridge etc and started playing them at the jam nights. It was fun watching the other guys struggling to keep up - it got to be a kind of competition, the C&W they preferred to the rock and folk we preferred. it came to a head one night when one guy said he was sick of playing all the songs we'd brought to the party; I said, "well we didn't moan about having to play "Horse With No Name" or "Hey Good Looking" or "Four In The Morning" or "Jolene" every week. (Note - for those of you who know me, and my taste in music, can you imagine me playing those songs? Well I did. Not that they extended my chord vocabulary very much, but they all helped my rhythm playing and timing.)

To cut a long story short, we compromised - and about a year later we started taking electric guitars in every now and then. That was when I realised those guys were so limited - they were good at what they did, but they did the same few songs over and over again. By this time, me and Stu were swapping lead licks - OK, he was doing most of them, but I was very comfortable with what I was doing best - rhythm guitar - by that time. I'd take the odd solo, but I really wasn't that comfortable, especially after about 3/4 pints.l

Then it got to the stage where I realised that I could play anything, if you gave me the chords....and I could improvise, too. Jamming with Stu, he'd say, take a solo - first few months, I'd shake my head, no, and carry on with the chords. Then I started playing along with the GN jams....realised I could play lead. In no time at all, I realised I was a better lead player than Stu - I had a far better sense of dynamics, I knew when to play loud and when to back off, I knew when to turn the gain up and when to play (fairly) clean. I'd outgrown them all - but I still enjoyed playing with them, because now I knew I could play.

Chris, I've heard you play, and you're a good guitarist - don't bring yourself down. Concentrate on the things you do well. Concentrate on getting them right. So what if some kid half your ages blows you away with his playing? It doesn't matter - you're not going to burn your guitars just 'cause he's a bit better than you, are you? No, you're going to carry on playing. Because you know you LOVE playing the guitar, and you know you're always going to want to play loud rock'n'roll in some shape or form.

"Ah, but they're really good," I hear you say, "and I'll NEVER be that good..." - So what? You don't have to compete - just be yourself, enjoy what you do, and play the music you want to play. We can't all be Clapton, Beck, Page, Hendrix, SRV or EVH - some of us have to work at it! (As Ringo said, "It Don't Come Easy!") The fun is in the journey, not the destination.....

Keep playing, keep working, and keep looking through the windows - enjoy the scenery!

:D :D :D

Vic
"Sometimes the beauty of music can help us all find strength to deal with all the curves life can throw us." (D. Hodge.)

cnev
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Re: Wow

Post by cnev » May 17th, 2011, 4:00 am

I hear you Vic nice post. I know I've run into similar things at the open mic I go to once in awhile. Over there it's pretty much all blues so it was never my cup of tea but the guy that runs it can play the blues but that's pretty much it every time we go down there and play some of the rock n roll songs we know he tries to jump in (he's a control freak) and he always justs mucks it all up.

I don't know how many times we've played Rock n Roll Ain't Noise Pollution and he tries to jump in and totally screws it up. He truly is pretty much a one trick pony but he does do his one trick very very well.

I am a competitive person by nature always have been and I'm sure I always will be. I don't take it to the extreme but I don't like being the worst at anything.

I think for me the one thing I that I am absolutely still unhappy with is my soloing and I know keep talking about it but probably don't do enough practicing though.

I've played enough with different people know to know I can keep a beat and hold down the rhythm but that's not enough for me it makes me feel incomplete as a player I keep telling my instructor I'd liek to really concentrate on that thne I come in and want to work on ten new songs. I'm my own worst enemy.

I guess it's all good...it has to be I can't really change anything immediately anway.. :lol:
"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!

Vic Lewis VL
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Re: Wow

Post by Vic Lewis VL » May 17th, 2011, 3:11 pm

cnev wrote:I am a competitive person by nature always have been and I'm sure I always will be. I don't take it to the extreme but I don't like being the worst at anything.
Yep, that pretty much describes me. I HATE being low man on the totem pole - I'll work my socks off to improve myself. Going back to jamming in the pub, when I first started I stuck strictly to rhythm chords. There was one guy there who's a really good guitarist, and who had the same acoustic songbook as me.....difference was, I knew most of the songs well. He played them like he'd never actually heard them; "Working Class Hero" would be at twice the real tempo, he'd stumble over the words to "Stuck In The Middle With You," and he'd play "Stand By Me" as if the Ramones had written it. Now I know you're pretty much a stickler for learning cover songs note-for-note, whereas I'm a bit sloppier - close is enough. But these were nowhere near, and he was confusing everyone else who actually knew the songs! His competitive nature and my competitive nature clashed frequently....he'd start a song, and I'd say, "Hang on, start again - that's way too fast!" Part of it was that I wanted the songs to be recognisable....part of it was asserting my ego....and I suppose part of it was trying to loosen his dominating influence on the group. It got to the stage where we had a long talk one night, at my instigation - I pointed out that, yes, I knew he started the whole thing going, but there are quite a few of us here now, and we all have different tastes....it's nice to try something new. I enjoyed going to the jams, but I didn't enjoy the "power struggle" and the clash of egos and the rigid conformity and the reluctance to try something new. It'd be nice, I said, if we all suggested a song to learn for next week - we can all work on it, and have a go at that. What I didn't like was the fact we were being used as a backing band for his rehearsal for his Wednesday C&W gig....there's more to life than C&W. Upshot was, after a long alcohol-fuelled chat, we agreed that we're all musicians, and there's room for negotiations re the song list. The other guys had got involved by this time, and although it never got to a nasty/name calling stage, it did get a bit intense. Did I mention I was a shop steward/union representative in a previous life? That helped - I put forward a reasoned argument, appealed to his sense of fair play, and basically won the day by being charming and persuasive. Well, that and the fact that me and Stu threatened to bring electric guitars and amps in the next week and play heavy rock.......

We did end up taking electric guitars in.....but played them tastefully. We didn't play anything too loud, and mostly, I'd be playing mine on the acoustic setting and playing rhythm chords, while Stu would be playing fairly cleanly (he never would put much distortion on!) and playing fills, licks and slide guitar. And everybody seemed to enjoy it a lot more - which just proves that democracy does work, as long as some idiot is prepared to put his head above the parapet and be willing to be shot down for a just cause!

Point I'm trying to make is, USE that competitive streak you've got - you might never be as good as EVH or SRV or (insert guitar deity of your choice here) but that's not important - use those youngsters to inspire you to better yourself. There's no such thing as "I'm too old to change my ways" - I've changed a lot in the last few years, and mellowed a little but without losing that competitive edge. You're still young enough to improve - you just need to focus on what you want to improve. In your case, it's solos (NOTE - NOT solo's!!!!!) - and the only way you'll improve is by playing those solos over and over again till you're note-perfect. Like I said, all the basics are there - I've heard you play, and there are things you can do that make my ears prick up and pay attention, especially on those GN jams....but you can do better. Can't we all?

So pick it up, plug it in, crank it up and hit those strings like you mean it - and I'm looking forward to hearing some soundbites and possibly full songs.

Keep rockin' mate,

:D :D :D

Vic
"Sometimes the beauty of music can help us all find strength to deal with all the curves life can throw us." (D. Hodge.)

cnev
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Re: Wow

Post by cnev » May 18th, 2011, 4:17 am

Vic funny story and kind of a similar situation with the open mic over here. The guy I talked about runs it and is a control freak. The difference is he also has to be the loudest when anyone plays and wants to jump up there no matter what.

Like you I want the songs to be recognizable but he puts his weird twist on everything and no one knows his "versions". He' seven come over to my house several times to jam but it's always his blues stuff and he NEVER wants to take the time to learn anything we play.

I learned The Pusher by Steppenwolf cuz he said he loved it but when we went to play it he had his own arrangement which was nothing special and refused to play it any other way.

OK I'll keep plugging along.. :)
"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!

rparker
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Re: Wow

Post by rparker » May 18th, 2011, 5:09 am

cnev wrote:I learned The Pusher by Steppenwolf cuz he said he loved it but when we went to play it he had his own arrangement which was nothing special and refused to play it any other way.
What did he do to that song?
Roy

"I wonder if a composer ever intentionally composed a piece that was physically impossible to play and stuck it away to be found years later after his death, knowing it would forever drive perfectionist musicians crazy." - George Carlin

cnev
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Re: Wow

Post by cnev » May 18th, 2011, 5:40 am

Changed a few of the chords and the whole rhythm of the song. But with him you never know how he is going to play a song in this case besides the chord changes he sped it up and wanted to throw his own fills etc which normally would be OK but it ended up just sounding like a blues song.
Last edited by cnev on May 18th, 2011, 6:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!

rparker
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Re: Wow

Post by rparker » May 18th, 2011, 5:44 am

He spead it up? Dang, that loses the whole groove. That song is the groove and visa-a-versa. I must agree with you without even hearing it.
Roy

"I wonder if a composer ever intentionally composed a piece that was physically impossible to play and stuck it away to be found years later after his death, knowing it would forever drive perfectionist musicians crazy." - George Carlin

cnev
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Re: Wow

Post by cnev » May 18th, 2011, 6:06 am

I won't even get into the vocals, he's got to have one of the worst voices I've heard but has to sing that song, of course he has to sing it cuz you never know where he is going with the song.
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Apache
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Re: Wow

Post by Apache » May 18th, 2011, 1:46 pm

I too often feel disheartened when hearing others, and sometimes the idea of smashing the guitar seems rather appealing :twisted: but all I can do is try (well often gritting my teeth and banging head against a brick wall is involved too), but when the trying really stops being fun, then that's when it I guess is time to call it a day....

Having met Vic and heard him play, it does hearten me to read his posts about the earlier jam sessions, as he is such an excellent player.

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