Effects Loops..is this normal?

Here is a forum for everything between the guitar (here) and the amp (there). If you want to know about cables, effects pedals, multieffects, noisegates, line drivers, phasers, distortion post your questions in here.
Post Reply
G-bo
newbie
Posts: 5
Joined: July 4th, 2013, 8:41 pm

Effects Loops..is this normal?

Post by G-bo » July 5th, 2013, 1:31 pm

Hi folks,
great site here.hopefully this is a simple question.Was hoping someone may know if it is normal for the volume control on my amp to be completely non-functional when I hook up my RP150 into the effects return of my amp.According to what I have read and going by my manual this is the correct way to hook it up.Thing is that my manual clearly says to turn the amp on and bring the vol up on the amp to a playing level then to adjust the level on the rp to the playing vol desired.Well my amp vol does absolutely nothing and I was wondering if this was how it was supposed to work or if I may have a problem with my amp.As it is right now I'm not sure it would be loud enough for a gig situation.
Quite sure everything is set up correctly....can anyone confirm if this is the way it's supposed to work?Maybe I will need a louder amp(it's a peavey bandit 112)It's plenty loud without the RP plugged in.Appreciate any help you could give me,Tks,Cheers.

Diceman
Full Member
Posts: 410
Joined: May 3rd, 2004, 6:58 pm
Location: Marion , NY

Re: Effects Loops..is this normal?

Post by Diceman » July 5th, 2013, 7:35 pm

It would help if you explained exactly where your guitar is plugged in . Are you plugged into the RP150 ? If so , you should plug the RP150's output directly into the amp's guitar input (KEEP THE AMP'S VOLUME LOW TO BEGIN !!!! ) . If you are plugged into the amp's input you need to have two patch cords for the effects loop , one going from the "send" jack to the RP150 input and another cord that goes from the RP150 out into the "return" jack . I have had amps where the "reverb" knob became an effect level control when something was plugged into the "return" jack ( I'm not saying that this is true in your case ) . I hope this helps !
Diceman
If I claim to be a wise man , it surely means that I don't know .

G-bo
newbie
Posts: 5
Joined: July 4th, 2013, 8:41 pm

Re: Effects Loops..is this normal?

Post by G-bo » July 5th, 2013, 8:34 pm

Hey Diceman thanks for the reply.Yes my guitar is plugged into the input of the rp150.Should have been clearer in my post..there is a diagram in my rp150 manual that shows exactly how to hook it up...it shows the guitar into the rp input and the rp output going into the amp input or the effects return...there is also a note by the diagram saying "when using a guitar amp it may be best to connect the output of the rp150 to the effect return of the amplifier". I took that to mean it was the best way to hook it up so that is how I'm running it.I believe I know what you are saying about plugging the guitar into the amp and running the effects unit through the send and return of the amp.I have heard of people doing this but it was not an option in my manual so I never tried it.I will try out this tomorrow(guitar straight into the amp and effects into the amps send and return)Will also check all buttons including the reverb to see if they effect the volume.
If I understand correctly the reason that the effects return is recommended is to bypass the pre-amp so it does not color the sound when using the amplifier models.Makes sense I guess but still a bit of a mystery to me that all my amp volumes have no effect and I cannot get anywhere near the volume the amp will put out just going straight into the amp with no effects pedal.....but perhaps this is normal for multi-effects pedals?
Clearly more experimentation and general noise-making is called for,will tackle it tomorrow.Thanks for the suggestions Diceman will post how I make out,If anyone else has had this problem or has any suggestions your input would be much appreciated.Cheers.

G-bo
newbie
Posts: 5
Joined: July 4th, 2013, 8:41 pm

Re: Effects Loops..is this normal?

Post by G-bo » July 6th, 2013, 8:10 am

Well after a few hours experimenting this is what I have concluded
1)running the guitar into the amp input and the rp150 into the send and return of the amp
brings back my amps vol to what it was....although the dist sounds are quite a bit worse sounding and the acoustic guitar simulator
is useless (sounds like a straight clean electric guitar)
2)running the guitar into the input of the rp150 and the output of the 150 into the amps input also gives the desired volume...Dist sounds are better....acoustic sim is slightly better but still pretty bad.
Conclusion-guess I will be going with option number 2 and doing a lot of tweaking and hope for the best.Bypassing the guitar's pre-amp(guitar-rp150 input-rp150 output-guitar amps effects return) will not give me the vol I will need for live playing.
If anyone has something to add I would sure welcome your input.I know they sell tons of multi-effects these days and someone must be using them at gigs so would be curious to know how you use it,set it up ect.Can't seem to find enough info on the web about this.Will keep at this and post back if I learn anything new,Cheers.

User avatar
Moonrider
Guitarnoise Denizen
Posts: 1335
Joined: April 28th, 2004, 3:59 am
Location: Midlothian, VA
Contact:

Re: Effects Loops..is this normal?

Post by Moonrider » July 6th, 2013, 8:13 am

G-bo wrote:Hi folks,
great site here.hopefully this is a simple question.Was hoping someone may know if it is normal for the volume control on my amp to be completely non-functional when I hook up my RP150 into the effects return of my amp.
. . .

Maybe I will need a louder amp(it's a peavey bandit 112)It's plenty loud without the RP plugged in.Appreciate any help you could give me,Tks,Cheers.
It's how Peavey's are built.

The Peavey effects loops are generally placed between the pre-amp stage of the amp (where the volume and EQ controls are) and the power amp stage. Set up like you've described, you completely bypass the pre-amp stage and are plugging the RP150 directly into the power stage of the amp - effectively using the RP-150 as a pre-amp. Since the RP150 has no way to adjust the volume of it's output "on the fly", what you hear is what you get.

For what you want to do, I'd either a) plug guitar into amp, send out to pedal, then pedal to return, or guitar into pedal, pedal into guitar input of amp. Try both and see what sounds best.
Playing guitar and never playing for others is like studying medicine and never working in a clinic.

Moondawgs on Reverbnation

G-bo
newbie
Posts: 5
Joined: July 4th, 2013, 8:41 pm

Re: Effects Loops..is this normal?

Post by G-bo » July 6th, 2013, 9:26 am

Thanks Moonrider,
that explains a lot,I'm going with the guitar into RP input and the RP output into the amp input.
This seems to give the best sound.Still have to tweak a lot but it's getting better.Gonna be a work in
progress I guess.Heard some say the best amp for multi-effects is a keyboard amp or a full range self powered monitor
cause they won't color the sound.I have no experience with this but will be looking into it.Sounds good on paper.
Will keep ya'all posted,thanks again moonrider,Cheers.

User avatar
Moonrider
Guitarnoise Denizen
Posts: 1335
Joined: April 28th, 2004, 3:59 am
Location: Midlothian, VA
Contact:

Re: Effects Loops..is this normal?

Post by Moonrider » July 7th, 2013, 7:09 am

G-bo wrote:.Heard some say the best amp for multi-effects is a keyboard amp or a full range self powered monitor
cause they won't color the sound.I
This is exactly right. When I use my Vox Tonelab SE for a show, I run straight into the PA and leave the guitar amps at home. We've got a fairly large system with multiple monitor mixes though.

My most common rig is a small collection of pedals into a Fender Blues Jr. it's got enough power for small venues unmiked, and more than enough to give decent stage volume for the mid-size and larger rooms where I mike the amp. For outdoor shows I swap out for a '59 Bassman LTD.
Playing guitar and never playing for others is like studying medicine and never working in a clinic.

Moondawgs on Reverbnation

Diceman
Full Member
Posts: 410
Joined: May 3rd, 2004, 6:58 pm
Location: Marion , NY

Re: Effects Loops..is this normal?

Post by Diceman » July 7th, 2013, 5:40 pm

G-bo wrote:Heard some say the best amp for multi-effects is a keyboard amp or a full range self powered monitor
cause they won't color the sound.I have no experience with this but will be looking into it. .
The reason the acoustic simulations sound bad is because the amp's speaker isn't good at reproducing the extremely high tones necessary to make the simulation realistic . For that you need a tweeter . Keyboard amps and acoustic guitar amps have tweeters and thus do a better job with the treble tones .
If I claim to be a wise man , it surely means that I don't know .

G-bo
newbie
Posts: 5
Joined: July 4th, 2013, 8:41 pm

Re: Effects Loops..is this normal?

Post by G-bo » July 7th, 2013, 8:10 pm

Hey Diceman
thanks for the info.I'm learning a lot here from you guys.I'm gonna have to look for a keyboard amp now or a self powered monitor.
Always something to buy....gotta get the new looper coming out next month too....time to start charming the wife I guess :).
Thanks again guy's appreciate all the help,Cheers.

Post Reply