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Whats up GN Bass players ?

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(@kalle_in_sweden)
Prominent Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 779
Topic starter  

Hi Bass Players on GN.
This Bass player forum is very quiet...
I know that there is several active people on GN that has a bass and is playing their bass.
But why is the bass discussions/activities so low ?

Kalle

Tanglewood TW28STE (Shadow P7 EQ) acoustic
Yamaha RGX 320FZ electric guitar/Egnater Tweaker 15 amp.
Yamaha RBX 270 bass/Laney DB 150 amp.
http://www.soundclick.com/kalleinsweden


   
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(@demoetc)
Noble Member
Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 2167
 

I don't know, Kalle. I used to go to Talkbass.com and read through posts, but...things would always seem they were about 'The best flatwounds for my Stingray?" or "Floating Thumb - good or bad?"

Threads like that. There was even one, the last one I read (because I stopped visiting), about left-handed basses and why should anyone learn the bass left-handed.

I didn't stop going there just because I happen to be left-handed, but it was more because they were so focused on the subject, which to me was petty.

I mean, I know there's lots of folks who get bored during the day and come online to see what's up and get into discussions - however funny or in some cases, off the subject - but at a certain point, for me personally, it comes down to the music - whichever instrument you happen to play. Talk of strings or 'picks vs fingers' or amps and effects is fun and all, but it's the using of all that stuff, together, to make music, and to tell the truth, there's not a lot to say about that.

There's only the doing of it - making music. And that's not something that's easy to talk about sometimes. You can talk about technique, styles, 'feel', the process of learning songs, etc, but playing music on bass or guitar or piano or fife, is about playing it - talking about it and actually performing it don't really happen at the same time.

All that stuff, all those topics, are helpful when you perform or record or practice but at the very moment of playing or performing, it comes down to just 'you' and what you're playing at that moment.

And sometimes it's a little hard to talk purely about yourself and your experiences because even though they're valid, they're valid for only for you, really, because it's a personal thing.

Easier to talk about amp models and bass types and 5-string vs 6-string or what is old school, types of strings, etc.

And with the bass, especially, there seems to be less to debate or consider because even though there are exceptional bass players out there in the world, who can shred and out do lots of guitar shredders (or at least equal them), the bass is really a 'support' instrument; it's part of the accompaniment, and what it accompanies is the song - the piece, the tune. A bass player sits back most times and is supposed to take a few important notes and put everything - every bit of feel, emotion, groove, etc - into those few notes. Lots of people who play the bass have the feeling that they would soon get bored of being in such a supporting role. They might find themselves in the position of wanting to be upfront and in the spotlight, but that's not their job, and as such, there's sometimes a lot of...frustration in what they do.

So there's talk of strings and tone and amps - all things that would make their own personal enjoyment of the instrument heightened.

In other words, it's not easy for most people to stand there and smile and say "Yah, I'm a sideman," and really feel good about themselves and proud of the fact, and not be bothered in the least that they're not in the spotlight. They don't crave it as some people do and don't feel the frustration as some others might. They can take one single note and groove on it and sync with the drummer and articulate that one note in all these interesting, rhythmic ways, and have a great time.

All with that one repeating note.

So what it comes down to - at least for me - is that there's not that 'thing' that lead guitar players have where they can say "Wow, I played that one solo and the feedback came in just right and everything was howling and I pulled up on the vibrato bar and everything went over the edge" kind of thing. For us it's more like "Yah, I was laying down that G so funky, I thought I saw James Brown standing there smiling!" Or "I hit that low B string and glasses fell off the tables!"

It does happen, but most times you're just there grooving and there's really not that much to talk about. It's like a personal victory that you were locked in so tight with the drummer that you two were making up your own sync'd punctuations in the song - because people might've noticed, but most in the audience were just watching the lead singer or guitarist do all this fancy stuff.

It's a different type of mentality; a different sort of attitude; being in the background but not letting it bother you or even to distract you. You're just playing that root-fifth and that's your whole world, and if you're in the right frame of mind, that root-fifth world can get pretty huge - if you let it.

I remember playing with a guitar player once and we were all doing a simple groove - in G - and he was leaning over to me and whispering, sarcastically "Geee, this is so interesting, isn't it?" and "Geeee I wonder when the next chord is coming up..." And I was thinking "Man, why are you even here?"

So yah, there's most times not a lot to talk about, unless it's that other board that I got bored of (props to them though) and it comes down to "I just got my 11-stringer!" type of gear thread, which is okay too.

It's a personal thing for me though. I'm not into getting ERBs and expensive instruments and the latest amp or compressor - I have a bass, I change strings every year or so, I play with a pick sometimes and fingers the rest of the time, I like my 25lb Fender Bassman 100, I record through a guitar (not bass) POD, and...I play.

To most people I'd be a pretty boring person. Actually, to me, I'm a pretty boring person - but even that's not really the point. I actually don't really care - I just play bass sometimes, guitar sometimes. I put together tunes sometimes, sometimes I just play a scale or work on walking; nothing terribly interesting to start a thread with, but to me at least, that's the nature of the instrumen.

And yah, I consider myself a sideman and am quite happy with it :)


   
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(@kalle_in_sweden)
Prominent Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 779
Topic starter  

Hi DemoEtc
For me, the bass is a new adventure compared to the guitar.
I want to learn bass playing techniques but also the rythm feeling.
And the thing that it is possible to play a grace note (out of scale) before a root note etc. with a bass and why it is no no with guitar etc.
Why is it no no to play bass with the thumb instead of the two finger or pick technique.
For a player of acoustic guitar using the the thumb for bass lines i natural, and it can be fast (even if its only downstrokes).
More and more I am trying listen to the bass player in all the songs I listen too.
And as you say, the technical side ( what type of strings etc.) is not interesting, its the way its played that is interesting.

Kalle

Tanglewood TW28STE (Shadow P7 EQ) acoustic
Yamaha RGX 320FZ electric guitar/Egnater Tweaker 15 amp.
Yamaha RBX 270 bass/Laney DB 150 amp.
http://www.soundclick.com/kalleinsweden


   
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(@slejhamer)
Famed Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 3221
 

I think it's because most of the GN bass players are guitarists first, and even though the approach and mentality are very different as Demo said above, many of the topics applicable to bass are also applicable to guitar, and are regularly covered in the other sections: theory, reading music, amplification, etc.

Regarding your question on thumb technique, I think there are songs for which playing acoustic fingerstyle can be appropriate, but more generally your thumb is going to be muting strings so your sound doesn't get muddy. Maybe someone with more experience can better answer you.

And grace notes, or passing tones, can be used with guitar just as with bass.

By the way DR Hi Beams are the best strings. ;)

"Everybody got to elevate from the norm."


   
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(@musenfreund)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 22 years ago
Posts: 5108
 

I think we also have a number of folks whose primary instrument is bass. I think maybe there's less discussion because bass players are more confident than those of us whose principal instrument is guitar!

Well we all shine on--like the moon and the stars and the sun.
-- John Lennon


   
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(@vic-lewis-vl)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 10264
 

Yeah, I think Slej hit the nail on the head there - I can think of a few people, myself included, who are guitarists first, bass players second. I've been playing about two years now (bass) - I took it up because I wanted to add bass lines to my own songs. All those years playing E and A shaped barre chords on the guitar paid off; I knew my way around the fretboard fairly well, or at least where the root notes were.

I haven't had to ask too many questions here; most of the ones I had were already asked and answered. I'm still learning - but I can put a bass line to virtually any song, even songs I might be having trouble putting chords to. Most of what I've learned has been from jamming along to records.

On a related note, anyone noticed how quiet the "Spot the Bassline" thread's been lately in games and trivia?

:D :D :D

Vic

"Sometimes the beauty of music can help us all find strength to deal with all the curves life can throw us." (D. Hodge.)


   
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(@demoetc)
Noble Member
Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 2167
 

Hi DemoEtc
For me, the bass is a new adventure compared to the guitar.
I want to learn bass playing techniques but also the rythm feeling.
And the thing that it is possible to play a grace note (out of scale) before a root note etc. with a bass and why it is no no with guitar etc.
Why is it no no to play bass with the thumb instead of the two finger or pick technique.
For a player of acoustic guitar using the the thumb for bass lines i natural, and it can be fast (even if its only downstrokes).
More and more I am trying listen to the bass player in all the songs I listen too.
And as you say, the technical side ( what type of strings etc.) is not interesting, its the way its played that is interesting.

Kalle

Yah it really is new. It's the same as the guitar - as far as the names of the notes and the strings being EADG like the bottom four on the guitar - but at the same time, it's totally different. It's quite an adventure as you say because the concepts are pretty radically different.

Grace notes - nah you can get away with them on the guitar (I call my mistakes 'grace notes' sometimes, lol), but it's like with the bass, it's down in its own frequency range and when you're way down there, there's room to play around because everybody else is above you. When it's on guitar, that grace note is more likely to be in the same range of a singer or another mid-frequency instrument, and you can get some really nasty clashes - like minor 2nds and stuff.

Also, the guitar just by itself, when playing chords, needs strict attention paid to what notes are being played because it can clash with itself.

The bass can just 'float' down there below everybody, out of everyone's 'way' so to speak, so...yes, there's more freedom sometimes in note choice.

As far as playing with the thumb; the early Fender basses actually had a finger rest located below the strings - that little wooden bar you see on some vintage basses. That was because it was assumed the new-for-its-time electric bass would be plucked with the thumb. Nowadays - and for quite a few years already - Fender (and others) have moved that rest up above the strings so players can anchor their thumb while playing with their fingers.

Actually sometimes I play with the thumb. Not on recordings or anything, but sometimes when the mood strikes I do. I also sometimes do it when jamming songs with my wife - because the music we play is pretty simple. When I play in my 'comfort zone' with index and middle finger plucking, I get carried away sometimes and make things a litle too complex. So, just to force myself to play more simply (in order to not overpower the main vocal melody), I start playing with just the thumb. I have to play less because it's not usual for me to play that way.

Also sometimes I'll pluck it with the thumb for a verse or two just to get a totally different tone.

As far as the technical side - it is interesting, but only up to a point with me. After I get my sound, or a sound I like, I pretty much stay with it and don't go looking any further. When I'm looking to change it or improve it, then I go looking into the technical side. It's just that sometimes threads (like on that other board) are only about these things and that gets a little boring for me. It's what a player does that's important, but like I said, that's sometimes not very interesting to talk about. It's all a personal experience, and everyone has them, but compared to say, guitarists, that tonal/technical thing is, to me at least, way less important than the notes you decide to use and how you use them.

Like for me: I play root-fifth mostly. I know the chord shapes and arpeggios and stuff, but when it comes down to actually laying down a track, it's root-fifth, over and over again, each chord, root-fifth. If I were a guitarist (which I am, but I'm just weird), I'd get totally bored just playing pairs of notes for each chord. I mean you can walk a bassline through all the notes of the chord, but sometimes, stylistically, it's just to busy. Sometimes busy is good, like when my wife and I perform - it's just the two of us, she's on uke and singing, and I'm just playing bass. In that sort of ensemble, it's good to fill the spaces. But the recorded versions of the same songs we play live, since we have multiple tracks, has more stuff in it.

Then the bass part gets simpler.

It's like the song is the jewel, and all the other instruments are merely the setting. They don't try to outshine the main gem even though they can be really good and really linked together. And that's why I think there's a lack of talk in the bass forums all through the net - because it's not that entertaining or interesting most times when someone says "Wow I really backed that singer up well!"

It's such a different thing being a sideman, lol, but at the same time, it's really pretty fun. Like the main vocal/melody is out there drawing all the attention of the audience, and you're back there laying the bass down and...it's kind of like a no pressure situation I guess, and in that, it's fun. I mean, you can't mess up or play sloppy, but there's no pressure on you to be the frontman and the main focus of the audience. And with the pressure off you can sometimes experiment and have a good time.

So yah, it's like you say - quite an adventure. :)


   
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(@demoetc)
Noble Member
Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 2167
 

By the way DR Hi Beams are the best strings. ;)

Hah! La Bella Deep Talkin'

Wait! Thomastik-Infeld Superalloy!

No...lol! It's happening here. In truth, I've never even tried the DRs or La Bellas or TIs. Have to one day though, but if I change strings once a year, that's at least three years.

I'll let you know ;)


   
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(@demoetc)
Noble Member
Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 2167
 

As soon as I get some basic stuff down, you can bet I'll be plunking down questions here left and right.
That should add some activity to the board! :wink:

Go for it; there's lots of bass players here and lots more who play both guitar and bass, but what's more, there's lots of people who are simply 'musicians' here, and that to me is more important. Like for me? I'd consider myself a bassist first, but also a guitarist first.

And then on second thought, I realized I think of myself as a 'musician' first, a bassist second and a guitarist second.

Weird, but...that's how I think of things ;)


   
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(@vic-lewis-vl)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 10264
 

And then on second thought, I realized I think of myself as a 'musician' first, a bassist second and a guitarist second.

I don't know what the hell I am! Probably a songwriter who learned to play instruments to be able to play his songs? In truth, I have ALWAYS wanted to play guitar - ever since I first heard the Beatles when I was a little kid. As soon as I'd got a few chords down, though, I wanted to write songs. I've stuck at it over the years, and hopefully improved.

Guitar - I like to think of myself as a reasonably competent rhythm guitarist who can play a few simple leads and fills, and who's improving at slide.

Bass - Mediocre, but heading towards average. Root-fifth and a few fills, but I play bass like a guitarist!

Keyboards - A few basic chords and fills. I can do very little with my left hand, keyboard-wise, since my accident last year. Although I'm virtually back to 100% of where I was on guitar - maybe even improved, I've worked hard at it - all I can do with my left hand on keyboards is hold a bass note.

Singing - hmmm....definitely improved since I quit smoking, but I still haven't got much of a range. More power and more tone, but not more range.

Songwriting - well, I write some real rubbish, and throw a lot of stuff out, but I do surprise myself now and then with the occasional goodie!

In cricketing terms I'd probably be described as a useful all-rounder....ah the hell with it, I'm a singer/songwriter/musician!

I can do "sideman" though - if I'm jamming, it's usually me who holds down the rhythm, whether it's on guitar or bass!

:D :D :D

Vic

"Sometimes the beauty of music can help us all find strength to deal with all the curves life can throw us." (D. Hodge.)


   
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(@demoetc)
Noble Member
Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 2167
 

There's enough bass players and guitar players in the world; not enough song writers. I do agree with your assessment - you're a song-writer; a rather rare commodity these days ;)


   
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(@slejhamer)
Famed Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 3221
 

By the way DR Hi Beams are the best strings. ;)
Hah! La Bella Deep Talkin'
Wait! Thomastik-Infeld Superalloy!
No...lol! It's happening here.
We haven't gotten "what are the best flatwounds for death metal?" yet ... :lol:

But honestly, there's a real sonic difference between stainless and nickel rounds, and they may affect technique too since the stainless can be very course and almost sticky feeling. And the degree of courseness varies from brand to brand ... and then there's round core vs. hex core, and tapered strings, and tape-wounds, and coated strings, and 1/2-rounds, and ...

"Everybody got to elevate from the norm."


   
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(@boxboy)
Noble Member
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 1221
 

By the way DR Hi Beams are the best strings. ;)

Hah! La Bella Deep Talkin'

Wait! Thomastik-Infeld Superalloy!

No...lol! It's happening here. In truth, I've never even tried the DRs or La Bellas or TIs. Have to one day though, but if I change strings once a year, that's at least three years.

I'll let you know ;)

I've got June 24th, 2010 marked in my daytimer, Demo. Looking forward to hearing what you think. :)

Don


   
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(@danlasley)
Noble Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 2118
 

And then on second thought, I realized I think of myself as a 'musician' first, a bassist second and a guitarist second.

I like to think I'm a musician as well.
The bass is actually my second instrument!
I started out on the piano when I was around five or so. My grandmother gave me lessons for the longest time, but once my family and I moved to Virginia she was on the other side of the country (It's a bit difficult to carry on lessons over such a distance :lol: )
After that we moved to Japan (Oh how I love the Navy) and I got myself some real lessons.
Now I'm back in the USA, carrying on with piano and picking up some bass as I go.
What better time than in the summer? No school means lots of free time!

Learning bass from piano is different than switching from guitar. Less to un-learn. Plus, you're already comfortable reading sheet music, and piano transcriptions are often quite good for the bass.

As to the overall topic, I've found that many bass players (with notable exceptions!) are quieter than their 6-string brethren, many are comfortable fading into the background, both musically and socially - which is strange, because it's difficult to play the bass all by yourself.

Also, we seem to have different goals, guitarists seem to want to get the right tone, buying multiple guitars to achieve tonal perfection for each song. And speed matters. Bass players prefer to get the right feel for each song. Tone is a part of it, but timing and fit - "finding the groove" - are most important.

Anyway, it dcesn't surprise me, or bother me, that this forum is quieter than the 24 other channels for guitarists and songwriters. It seems natural.


   
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(@demoetc)
Noble Member
Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 2167
 

By the way DR Hi Beams are the best strings. ;)
Hah! La Bella Deep Talkin'
Wait! Thomastik-Infeld Superalloy!
No...lol! It's happening here.
We haven't gotten "what are the best flatwounds for death metal?" yet ... :lol:

But honestly, there's a real sonic difference between stainless and nickel rounds, and they may affect technique too since the stainless can be very course and almost sticky feeling. And the degree of courseness varies from brand to brand ... and then there's round core vs. hex core, and tapered strings, and tape-wounds, and coated strings, and 1/2-rounds, and ...

Haha, I've seen ones like that, or "How do I get that old school punk sound?"

And I'm thinking, "Man, just get a bass guitar with strings on it, an old Acoustic 370 or Ampeg, plug them together and play really, really loud." Like Macca is said to have said when asked about his strings - "The long shiny ones."

Funny, I have a set of Dean Markley Blue Steels on my 5-string, and every time I play it, it's like I'm rubbing my fingers against a fine-tooth metal file or something; like those little round keyhole files. I know the feeling. I'll probably go to Rotosound rounds when I change them out next - in 2010 - and just go with that. Or maybe D'Addario nickels. I want to keep at least one bass with roundwounds in case I want to get that 'old school punk sound' or '70s classic rock' sound ;)


   
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