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12 bar blues

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(@deanobeano)
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Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 127
Topic starter  

I have been studying davids 12 bar blues lessons and understand the blues pattern but im stuck on the the shuffels part. I understand the shuffles are made up of the I, Iv, v pattern like the chords. The root is always played and the iv and v alternate so for the E chord example the E would be the root and A and B would alternate but what david has tabbed is that E is always played but it alternates between B and C#/Db and thats what i cant understand. The same goes fors for the A chord example. So what am i missing ? Hope you can understand this heres the link to the lesson: Before You Accuse Me

Thanx


   
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(@primeta)
Prominent Member
Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 836
 

I think you've just misread it,
Shuffling consists of playing a pattern of two pairs of simultaneous notes. The lower note is always the root (or I) of the chord you are playing. The higher note alternates between the V and VI of the chord. So, for example, if we were doing a blues shuffle on an E or an A chord, it would sound like this:

so V and VI not IV and V

"Things may get a whole lot worse/ Before suddenly falling apart"
Steely Dan
"Look at me coyote, don't let a little road dust put you off" Knopfler


   
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(@forrok_star)
Noble Member
Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 2337
 

I don't understand were your getting the b and c# for the Key of E. I'll see if I can explain it a little different. Here's the patterens he has for the chart.

I...IV..V
A...D...E
B...E...F#
C...F...G
D...G...A
E...A...B
F...Bb..C
G...C...D

I know I probably can't explain it as well as David does, I just know how to play it.

Lets take the first one the Key of A. You would play the A chord for 4 measures, then change to the D chord for 2 measure, back to the A for 2 measure, then the E for 1 measure, then D for 1 measure, and back to the A for 1 measure then back to the E for 1 quick kind-a stop. Then turn around and play it all again. It's also called a turn around progression, because you turn around and start over and play through again.

This is a important progression to learn in all the keys. Once you get it down you'll be hearing all kinds of songs that use this pattern. Slow for some blues then fast for some rock and roll.

Hope I explained it well enough to Help out.

Joe


   
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(@musenfreund)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 22 years ago
Posts: 5108
 

Does he mean between the E5 and E6 on the boogie in the shuffle pattern?

I think that's where the C# is coming from, as in this passage from David's lesson on "Before You Accuse Me":

.

So it's still the I IV V pattern but including the boogie on the 5 chord.

When you boogie on the chord, you use your pinkie to reach up and grab the note a whole step up from the 5 -- i.e. the 6th.

On the A5, you're playing A and E, but when you boogie, you'll reach over and grab the F#:

I hope that's helpful.

Well we all shine on--like the moon and the stars and the sun.
-- John Lennon


   
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(@ignar-hillstrom)
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Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 5349
 

Joe: you're playing it minor and change to the minor scale of the chord being played. The more basic version Deano is talking about is in A major and stays in A major all the way. You play the A5, A6, D5, D6, E5 and E6 chords. All sixth chords without third and fifth, so more of an interval then a chord, but usually the bass will play in it's walk the third and fifth of the chords.

The notes used are A B C# D E F#, all notes from the A major chord.

Notes used during A-chord
A B C# D E F# G#

Notes used during D-chord
D E F# G# A B C#

Notes used during E-chord
E F# G# A B C# D


   
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(@deanobeano)
Reputable Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 127
Topic starter  

Thanx guys i got it now! I read it wrong :oops: i thought you use to the I,IV,V pattern for the 12 bars and then the shuffle, but now i see you use I,V,Vi for the shuffle thanx. :D


   
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(@ignar-hillstrom)
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Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 5349
 

Yeah, it's I IV V for the chord progression and I+V and I+VI for how to play those chords.


   
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(@dimebag)
Eminent Member
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 25
 

i dont really go through keys and scales when it comes to blues,you gotta play it from the heart, :!: an pull gary moore faces!lol!

"forever stronger than all"

dimebag darrell[rip]


   
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(@ignar-hillstrom)
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Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 5349
 

Dimebag: all these classic bluesplayer who 'play by the heart' play scales, modes and appergios. Understanding grammar won't stop you from discussing something out of the bottom of your heart just as knowing scales won't bother you when improvising.

If you are sure you use no scale whatsoever dump a recording in the hear hear section, would love to listen to it.


   
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(@dimebag)
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Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 25
 

i can apreciate your comments and i assure you my theory is up to scratch,my point is that people shouldnt be afraid to improvise,to know the notes,an to make it special.

regards

"forever stronger than all"

dimebag darrell[rip]


   
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(@ignar-hillstrom)
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Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 5349
 

Dimebag: my apologies for sounding so agressive, the result of posting late-night with no coffee I guess. In any case you're correct: once you do know the notes it's time to let go and create music instead of scales. But I assume that those who are learning a lot from David's article (or mine, for that matter) haven't been playing blues guitar for many decades yet and simply lack the knowledge that allows one to improvise freely. Practicing scales is a great way to 'get to know' the fretboard, how the notes sound and what different combinations feel like. Scales aren't the final goal, but can greatly help in reaching your goals.


   
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(@greybeard)
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Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 5840
 

I agree with Arjen on this. You can use "noodling" to fix both scales in your mind (and, more importantly, moving between box patterns) and finding your feet with improvisation. One feeds the other.

I started with nothing - and I've still got most of it left.
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