Skip to content
Notifications
Clear all

A and Am

13 Posts
8 Users
0 Likes
1,905 Views
(@bmxdude)
Estimable Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 119
Topic starter  

How do you tell the diffrence between a A Major penatonic, and a A minor
penatonic scale :?: They have the same shapes throgh out the fretboard.
I think it haves to do something with the tonic, but I don't realy know what a tonic is. Any help :?: Please

"The answer is practice.
Now, what's the question?"
Words by David Mead.


   
Quote
(@burgermeister)
Eminent Member
Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 45
 

How do you tell the diffrence between a A Major penatonic, and a A minor
penatonic scale :?: They have the same shapes throgh out the fretboard.
I think it haves to do something with the tonic, but I don't realy know what a tonic is. Any help :?: Please

Major and Minor Pentatonic scales share the same notes although not the same root (tonic). Aminor starts on A as the root and plays thru notes
A,C,D,E,G,A. C major follows essentially the same pattern and plays the same notes, although it starts on the root of C and plays thru C,D,E,G,A,C.

Note that Aminor and Amajor are not the same scales and do not share exactly the same notes.


   
ReplyQuote
(@greybeard)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 5840
 

The Amajor pentatonic contains the notes of an Amajor scale with the IV and vii removed:
A - B- C# - (D) - E - F# - (G#) - A
So:
A - B- C# - E - F# - A

The Aminor pentatonic is the Aminor scale, minus the ii and vi:

A - B- C - (D) - E - F - (G) - A
So:
A - B- C - E - F - A

As you can see, they have different notes and, therefore, different shapes.

I think you are comparing the Aminor to the Cmajor scale. Both share the same notes, both in the full scale and the pentatonic (the IV of the major is the vi of the minor and the vii of the major is the ii of the minor):
Cmaj :- C - D - E - F - G - A - B- C
Amin :- A - B- C - D - E - F - G - A

I started with nothing - and I've still got most of it left.
Did you know that the word "gullible" is not in any dictionary?
Greybeard's Pages
My Articles & Reviews on GN


   
ReplyQuote
(@gnease)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 5038
 

And then there's the easy (but very incomplete) answer that addresses your confusion ... If one compares patterns on the fretboard, they are the same, except the minor pent pattern in a specific key is shifted up three frets (step and a half = a minor third) higher than the major pent pattern in that same key. So they look the same patternwise or in terms of the intervals, but as you guessed, the root is located in different places in each pattern.

-=tension & release=-


   
ReplyQuote
(@goodvichunting)
Reputable Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 326
 

Does this concept of same notes and same pattern for minor and major scale apply to the blues scales ??

Latest addition: Cover of "Don't Panic" by Coldplay
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=502670


   
ReplyQuote
(@bmxdude)
Estimable Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 119
Topic starter  

So, if I'am getting this right the tonic is just another name for the root, and the only way to tell the diffrence between the Am and A scale is to memorize the where the roots(or tonics) are on the fretboard.

"The answer is practice.
Now, what's the question?"
Words by David Mead.


   
ReplyQuote
(@undercat)
Prominent Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 959
 

The Aminor pentatonic is the Aminor scale, minus the ii and vi:

A - B- C - (D) - E - F - (G) - A
So:
A - B- C - E - F - A

As you can see, they have different notes and, therefore, different shapes.

This seems to indicate that D is the ii of A minor... :?:

I think I'm losing it. I thought A minor pentatonic would be A-C-D-E-G-A

Do something you love and you'll never work a day in your life...


   
ReplyQuote
(@noteboat)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 4921
 

I thought A minor pentatonic would be A-C-D-E-G-A
It is. And A major pent is A-B-C#-E-F#-A.

Guitar teacher offering lessons in Plainfield IL


   
ReplyQuote
(@undercat)
Prominent Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 959
 

Does this concept of same notes and same pattern for minor and major scale apply to the blues scales ??

Yes, but again, as Greg stressed, the root moves, so you really have to watch yourself on this one. Since pentatonic boxes move so easily and with so little thought, you have to make sure that you're really thinking about what you're doing when you start to do this with major and minor scales.

Taking that leap is easier if you keep your mind on what degree of the scale you're playing, and if you memorize where the 'missing' notes of the major/minor scale fall relative to those pentatonic shapes.

This is a concept I use extensively in my own improvising, but haven't really explained fully to anyone yet... This discussion of pentatonics and intervals is a good way to bring the concept into play... good times.

Do something you love and you'll never work a day in your life...


   
ReplyQuote
(@undercat)
Prominent Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 959
 

I thought A minor pentatonic would be A-C-D-E-G-A
It is. And A major pent is A-B-C#-E-F#-A.

Good, that makes me feel a little less crazy. So minor pentatonic is actually minor without the ii and the vi, not without the IV and vii, which seemed to be what greybeard was saying.

Do something you love and you'll never work a day in your life...


   
ReplyQuote
(@hbriem)
Honorable Member
Joined: 22 years ago
Posts: 646
 

I thought A minor pentatonic would be A-C-D-E-G-A
It is. And A major pent is A-B-C#-E-F#-A.

Good, that makes me feel a little less crazy. So minor pentatonic is actually minor without the ii and the vi, not without the IV and vii, which seemed to be what greybeard was saying.

Well remember that C major= A minor, and C major pentatonic has the same notes as the A minor pentatonic.

Roman numbers are used for chords. Upper case for majors, lower case for minors and diminished chords:

I - ii - iii - IV - V - vi - vii°

Arabic numbers are used for notes:

1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 (natural minor: 1 - 2 - b3 - 4 - 5 - b6 - b7 - 8 )

Ordinal numbers (with extra descriptions) are used for intervals, ie major 3rd, perfect 5th, dominant 7th, etc.

A major:

A-B-C#-D-E-F#-G#-A

A major pentatonic (drop the 4 and 7)

A-B-C#-( )-E-F#-( )-A

A natural minor:

A-B-C-D-E-F-G-A

A minor pentatonic (drop the 2 and 6) :

A-( )-C-D-E-( )-G-A

A harmonic minor:

A-B-C-D-E-F-G#-A

A melodic minor:

A-B-C-D-E-F#-G#-A ascending, A natural minor descending.

--
Helgi Briem
hbriem AT gmail DOT com


   
ReplyQuote
(@greybeard)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 5840
 

Yep, I right royally ballsed the Aminor up, didn't I??

Sorry about that- it was rather late at night :shock:

I started with nothing - and I've still got most of it left.
Did you know that the word "gullible" is not in any dictionary?
Greybeard's Pages
My Articles & Reviews on GN


   
ReplyQuote
(@undercat)
Prominent Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 959
 

Yep, I right royally ballsed the Aminor up, didn't I??

Sorry about that- it was rather late at night :shock:

I thought I had woken up on a different planet! Seriously, you wrote that, and I took this scale pattern I use frequently for pent minor, and was going.. "there's no way I've been doing it wrong all this time... no way!".

I had to go find another online reference to make sure I hadn't spontaneously beamed onto the set of "The Outer Limits"...

/Do not attempt to adjust your picture, we control the major and the minor...

Do something you love and you'll never work a day in your life...


   
ReplyQuote