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a question for sight readers

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(@almann1979)
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Joined: 16 years ago
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Topic starter  

This is a great video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yXDrjp7NK0

of a young bloke covering a satriani number (very well).
he says in the description he is sight reading, and you can see him in the video, turn the pages of his music book.
However, there is no way in the world he is reading this note for note. As far as im concerened he must have this song down to memory. So, what does he mean when he says he is sight reading? is my definition of sight reading wrong - as i thought it was looking at the notes and playingt them one at a time?

"I like to play that guitar. I have to stare at it while I'm playing it because I'm not very good at playing it."
Noel Gallagher (who took the words right out of my mouth)


   
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(@noteboat)
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He's not playing it "at sight" (nor is he claiming to) - it's very clear he's rehearsed the piece before.

There are two reasons I say that: first, he is looking away from the music often. Although he tends to be doing that on longer notes, that's something you just don't do the first time you play a piece - especially if it's a long piece. There's a very real risk that you look away from a note, then look back and find the same note... in a different measure. Or on a different line. When I'm reading "at sight", I never take my eyes off the music - but I might if I'm sight reading a piece I've played through a couple dozen times.

Second is his fingerings on the scale runs. When you read "at sight" you're scanning a phrase, picking a position, and executing it. Although the music may be noted with fingerings, string numbers, positions, etc... you simply can't take all that in and make the shifts at full speed when they occur in the MIDDLE of runs. He's covering ground from the 2nd through 12th position in a single run, with multiple shifts... yet he doesn't hit a note below E (4th string, 2nd fret). If I was faced with that same run in music, I'd probably be starting out in 11th position.

When you're faced with a big long run of notes, the very first thing you take in is the extremes. One big advantage of standard notation is that you get a sense of how high and low a passage goes before you actually identify even the first note - the 'shape' of the line tells you that. Here he's looking at a run that never goes below the staff, but heads up to at least two or three (and maybe four) ledger lines above. An experienced sight reader would never start that passage low on the fretboard the first time through.

Notice I didn't say a thing about tempo. You CAN sight read that quickly, after a lot of practice. It's just like reading English - in the beginning you sounded things out one letter at a time; after years of practice you see big words and know what they are at a glance. Music is the same way - it's generally organized into recognizable phrases and regular rhythms, and you take in a whole lot of information at once, just as you do with words.

Just like reading English, there are things that are easy to read... and things that aren't. It has very little relationship to do with the speed your're going through it - but a lot of relationship to vocabulary. If there are lots of big unfamiliar words (i.e. unusual time signatures, lots of syncopation, double accidentals, etc) it makes you stumble a bit.

Just like reading words, how much you read determines how well you read. Because I teach for a living, and because the majority of my students work from standard notation, I probably read from sheet music at least three hours in an average day. I could probably read something on the level of that Satriani piece (although I'd be playing those runs in just one or two positions, rather than yanking my hands up and down the fretboard). There are guys who make their living in areas demanding a lot more reading - like a pit orchestra guitarist - who could do it a lot more easily than I could, because their daily reading has harder vocabulary than I get into with students, and the amount of "at sight" reading I do in my own practicing is only about 15-20 minutes a day.

Guitar teacher offering lessons in Plainfield IL


   
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(@joehempel)
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I've noticed when I'm reading music, I have to play it first very slowly, then as I get more familiar with the piece, I end up using the sheet as a reference, and most of it is from memory. But without the sheet I'd be lost. There are those little cues for me to follow.

In Space, no one can hear me sing!


   
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(@almann1979)
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Topic starter  

Noteboat - thanks for the lengthy explanation. i have to say i am blown away when you say some people could sight read pieces like that, it just shows me how far there is to go with this instrument.

Joe - i didnt know you sight read. do you do that on your video's or are they all memorised?

"I like to play that guitar. I have to stare at it while I'm playing it because I'm not very good at playing it."
Noel Gallagher (who took the words right out of my mouth)


   
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(@joehempel)
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The classical pieces are read with sheet music, the fingerstyle ones are tab, and I'm reading them as I'm playing, for whatever reason I just can't seem to memorize them.

But I do some sight reading exercises almost everyday, there is a book called A Tune-A-Day that has some simple stuff in it that I go through for it.

In Space, no one can hear me sing!


   
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(@jwmartin)
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When I was learning, I was taught to read a measure ahead of what I was playing and to read in "chunks" (usually measures). Like Noteboat said, it's the difference between reading a letter at a time and reading words. I still can't sight read something at speed. I generally have to go through it a few times first. And I can only read bass clef, not treble. Well, I could if I tried, but I stick to bass.

Bass player for Undercover


   
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(@notes_norton)
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Sight reading is a skill. Some people have more talent for it than others. It is only one skill in a musician's "bag of tricks" so you will get some good musicians who cannot sight read and some poor musicians who can.

If you have the talent for it, it simply takes doing it, and doing it often. And most musicians have the talent.

I can sight-read very well on the saxophone because I've been playing it most of my life. On the guitar, I can sight read simple pieces but have to work on the more difficult ones.

But even after you become an accomplished sight reader, if you play a particular piece of music enough, it will become a combination of reading and memorization which is what the person you referred to is obviously doing.

But then, many people have the wrong conception of sight reading. Sight reading is done the first time you sit down with a piece of music. The second time you play it, it is no longer sight reading, just reading. And eventually it is the combination of reading and memorization.

One more thing about sight-reading. Often a piece of music is not played exactly like it was written, with each artist changing nuances to fit his/her style. When sight reading, you are supposed to read it as written, not as played by any particular artist. This is true especially if you are playing in a large band. After all, each musician may have heard a different version of the song, and if they all played it the way they hear it, instead of how it is written, a train wreck may occur.

Insights and incites by Notes

Bob "Notes" Norton

Owner, Norton Music http://www.nortonmusic.com Add-on Styles for Band-in-a-Box and Microsoft SongSmith

The Sophisticats http://www.s-cats.com >^. .^< >^. .^<


   
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(@noteboat)
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When sight reading, you are supposed to read it as written, not as played by any particular artist. This is true especially if you are playing in a large band. After all, each musician may have heard a different version of the song, and if they all played it the way they hear it, instead of how it is written, a train wreck may occur.

Amen! Every once in a while I get a new student who tells me they already read really well, so they don't need to work on that part of their playing. I have them play "Girl from Ipanema" from the Real Book as a little test. Just about everyone has heard the tune... and just about everyone remembers it just a bit differently from what's on the page.

Guitar teacher offering lessons in Plainfield IL


   
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(@kingpatzer)
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To be fair, it is a real challenge for most people, even experience site readers, to ignore their ear and follow their eyes. Music is aural not visual (with the rare exception of the synesthesic musician) and the natural inclination of all musicians, even experienced ones, is to believe their ears first.

"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." -- HST


   
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 Ande
(@ande)
Prominent Member
Joined: 16 years ago
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So simple it sounds stupid, but...

If you practice, you can do it. I have a very good friend, a metal player, who plays things at first sight that are too fast for me to even follow at first listen.

He sight reads every day, as part of his practice routine. Runs through a lot of money on sheet music, but it's part of why he's good.

I can sight read fairly simple pieces on guitar- more complicated stuff for piano and voice, where I have more training. But then, 3 years ago, I couldn't sight read at all on guitar. Try to do some every week...

Best,
Ande


   
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(@outlaw-pete)
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Joined: 15 years ago
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Anybody else notice the similarity between this and Coldplay's Viva La Vida. Seems Satch did too [ http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7766683.stm
Edit: Should have searched about it before posting


   
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(@davidhodge)
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Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 4472
 

The question of plagarism was brought up before - over a year ago, I think. Here's the thread:

https://www.guitarnoise.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=42509&start=0&hilit=vida

Okay, back to sight reading...

Peace


   
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(@notes_norton)
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To be fair, it is a real challenge for most people, even experience site readers, to ignore their ear and follow their eyes. Music is aural not visual (with the rare exception of the synesthesic musician) and the natural inclination of all musicians, even experienced ones, is to believe their ears first.

Definitely, which is why we need to work on it.

I learned this skill in school band (sax) and it has served me well through the years.

Sometimes it is very difficult to read the notes on the page instead of the rhythms in your head. Often that version in your head is much better than the rhythms on the page. Also, the written music is often an approximation of how the song goes, especially with pop music, because the notation cannot faithfully the nuances of a performance - swing is one example. Is it triplets? Dotted eighth-sixteenth? Neither but somewhere in betwen.

In the larger bands I've been in, we read it "as written" first, and then decided how to change it together. Thus avoiding the train wreck.

And I must add, reading music on the sax is definitely easier than on the guitar. On the other hand, transposing on the guitar is much easier than on the sax. Each instrument has it's easier and more difficult aspects. Learning the more difficult skills on any instrument is the challenge, but when accomplished, also the big reward.

Insights and incites by Notes

Bob "Notes" Norton

Owner, Norton Music http://www.nortonmusic.com Add-on Styles for Band-in-a-Box and Microsoft SongSmith

The Sophisticats http://www.s-cats.com >^. .^< >^. .^<


   
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