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Barre Concern

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(@chalkoutline)
Estimable Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 157
 

I've been having the same problem but I'm finding that a bit lighter pressure and getting the barre finger right on the fret helps. If I get my finger too far behind the fret there's no way I can get that B string to ring. Practicing the barres also seems to be creating a bit of a callus on the side of my index finger which helps a lot. Good luck and keep practicing.

I have to agree with this. As I have become a little more experienced and relaxed with my playing the barre's come a lot easier. I used to press down very hard but finally learned to calm down, relax and press down just enough to make the strings ring out.

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(@fredramsey)
Estimable Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 128
Topic starter  

Well, the combination of finger position and pressure seems to have done it.

For my fingers, the 6th string ends up being held by only the last 8th to quarter-inch of my index finger, close to the fret, and not squeezing quite as hard.

Now if I can get my thumb used to it - hurts if I hold it for more than a few seconds.

Oh, and, to get the B string down, I pull down with my hand to put more pressure on the fretboard with the base of my index finger. (Easier done than explained, but you'll see what I mean).

Learning requires a willingness to be bad at something for awhile.


   
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(@fredramsey)
Estimable Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 128
Topic starter  

And here is a great song to practice barring with:

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/tabs/w/who/pinball_wizard_tab.htm

Learning requires a willingness to be bad at something for awhile.


   
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(@fredramsey)
Estimable Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 128
Topic starter  

Here's my attempt at a couple of photos of what worked for me.


Learning requires a willingness to be bad at something for awhile.


   
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(@fredramsey)
Estimable Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 128
Topic starter  

I can do a full-barre F now!

WOOT!

Learning requires a willingness to be bad at something for awhile.


   
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(@scrybe)
Famed Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 2241
 

Congrats man! I was gonna jump in and post a tip, but it seems unnecessary now, the hard work has paid off!

But for anyone else struggling with this, if you find it easier to do a barre chord higher up the neck (e.g. at the 3rd or 5th fret), when you're practicing, start here and play the chord once. Then slide your whole hand down one fret, and play that chord. Keep going until you make it all the way down to the F chord on the first fret. Running through that a few times before practicing a song with a tricky barre in it can help.

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(@fredramsey)
Estimable Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 128
Topic starter  

I can't do it consistently perfect (probably won't for quite some time) but just found the "trick" that works for me, a target to shoot for in terms of strength and muscle memory.

:D

Learning requires a willingness to be bad at something for awhile.


   
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(@notes_norton)
Noble Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 1497
 

Has anyone else found barre chords easier if you take a more "classical" guitar position (means the neck sits up much higher when in a seated position and gives the arm more room to position easily)?<...>

Yes, especially the major seventh with the maj7 on the B string.

Even though I gig standing, I always play in a something closer to a classical position than the normal "heavy metal" guitar down to your knees position. I figure the guitar is a tool, and I should make it as comfortable and easy to play as I can. The tool conforms to my body, I don't bend for the tool any more than I have to. For me that means with my upper arm vertical, the neck is a little higher than my elbow and at a slight upward slant. For "stretchy" chords the neck can be raised to reach the stretch (the above mentioned Maj7). I tried hanging the guitar low for those rock and roll looks, but found I can play better when the guitar is comfortable, and I decided playing better was more important than looking better.

I seldom play open string chords (Cowboy chords as an old Nashville buddy calls them) and actually find Barre chords easier. After all, the same position for F works for F#/Gb, G, G#/Ab and all the others. Less memorization, less hand gymnastics and the ability to choke the chords with your left hand. Plus once you learn to play them without using the "death grip" they are easy on your hand.

But the kind of music I play for a living doesn't require open string chords, if it did, I'd play them.

But I maintain, barre chords are easier than Cowboy chords.

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(@chris-c)
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Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 3454
 

Hi,

Great to hear that you're starting to nail it!

I use three different ways to play 'bar chords':

1) What I call "Poor man's bar chords".

These are perfectly usable, but don't need a barring finger at all. They rely on the fact that the most common movable shapes (E, A, Am, and even D, Dm and Em) all contain the necessary triad of notes on three adjacent strings. All you need to do is strike/strum only those three, and you're sweet. You can use them all over the neck. Learning to be selective about which strings you hit is a necessary skill to have anyway. The remaining strings can be muted with the spare finger, used selectively as a ringing or drone string (when appropriate and possible), or the spare finger can be used to create a four note version using the next string to one side.

2. Partial bars.

If I don't need all six strings (and I usually don't) then the bar finger needs only to fret two of the five remaining strings cleanly, and I don't play the other one (fairly easy when the remaining one is the highest or lowest string). Even my gnarled and knobbly old fingers can do this without much trouble. :wink:

3. Full bars.

Even using capo - which is purpose built for the job, and engineered accordingly - can lead to buzzing or muting if I don't apply it carefully. So what chance my wonky old digits, eh? Especially as I mostly play an acoustic steel string with fairly heavy strings. As it stands now I can successfully do some shapes (Am for instance, where it's easy to hide the wonkiest bits of the barring index behind the other fingers) without much trouble, but some shapes are still a work in progress to get reliable.

Between those 3 methods I can always find a comfortable way through. Plus, the first two can sometimes be a fair bit quicker and more convenient to get into place if I'm swapping between bars and open chords. . :)

Cheers,

Chris


   
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(@coolnama)
Prominent Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 590
 

Has anyone else found barre chords easier if you take a more "classical" guitar position (means the neck sits up much higher when in a seated position and gives the arm more room to position easily)?<...>

I seldom play open string chords (Cowboy chords as an old Nashville buddy calls them) and actually find Barre chords easier. After all, the same position for F works for F#/Gb, G, G#/Ab and all the others. Less memorization, less hand gymnastics and the ability to choke the chords with your left hand. Plus once you learn to play them without using the "death grip" they are easy on your hand.

But the kind of music I play for a living doesn't require open string chords, if it did, I'd play them.

But I maintain, barre chords are easier than Cowboy chords.

Insights and incites by Notes

I have to agree that barre chords are easier than open string chords because of what u said and because open strings are harder to control than when you are doing a barre where you can just mute it with your left hand but yeah once I got used to them I almost always use them except when the chord changes dictates otherwise, and I also like the sound of barre chords better.

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(@hornfinger)
Eminent Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 23
 

I find my tendency with barre chords is to have at least one of the non-barred fingers too far from the fret. Making sure they're properly placed, and sliding my thumb up towards the body of the guitar to increase the leverage on my index finger, seems to do the trick.

Fredramsey, congrats on the full-barre F. I don't know the chord names precisely, but if you take that shape and play it so you're barring the 8th fret, then play the same thing but lift your barre finger, then slide down and do the barre F, you have the intro to Use Somebody by Kings of Leon (try playing only the E,A,D and G strings though). :D


   
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(@minotaur)
Noble Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 1089
 

Understand that without seeing you play, this is purely guesswork, but a typical beginner mistake is to use too much of the index finger to barre. By "too much," I mean having the tip of the index finger extended way beyond where it's needed. If you get only enough of the tip of it to cover the sixth string (or fifth string if that's the sort of barre you're doing), then you often have better optimal coverage, especially on the three high strings. A lot of people start learning barres by jamming the index finger as far as it will go, often far past the other side of the neck, and this sometimes creates the sort of problem you're reporting.

As always, totally ignore this advice if it doesn't describe your particular scenario. :wink:

Peace

Dang, that was my suggestion! :evil: :wink:

It doesn't take much of the index finger to hold down the E (6th) string. I found I make a better barre if I use just the tip of my index finger. Then the fleshy part of the rest of the finger hits the strings, which don't fall into the knuckle crease.

And holding the fretboard higher up, like classical, as a few of you said, the fretboard closer to my body and my elbow pushed forward for that gap between palm and neck.

It is difficult to answer when one does not understand the question.


   
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(@unimogbert)
Estimable Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 174
 

And just when you think you have it under control..... a 12 string appears and the song needs a barre chord!

(there's always something more to work on)

Unimogbert
(indeterminate, er, intermediate fingerstyle acoustic)


   
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(@mrodgers)
Trusted Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 75
 

Understand that without seeing you play, this is purely guesswork, but a typical beginner mistake is to use too much of the index finger to barre. By "too much," I mean having the tip of the index finger extended way beyond where it's needed. If you get only enough of the tip of it to cover the sixth string (or fifth string if that's the sort of barre you're doing), then you often have better optimal coverage, especially on the three high strings. A lot of people start learning barres by jamming the index finger as far as it will go, often far past the other side of the neck, and this sometimes creates the sort of problem you're reporting.

As always, totally ignore this advice if it doesn't describe your particular scenario. :wink:

Peace

Dang, that was my suggestion! :evil: :wink:

It doesn't take much of the index finger to hold down the E (6th) string. I found I make a better barre if I use just the tip of my index finger. Then the fleshy part of the rest of the finger hits the strings, which don't fall into the knuckle crease.

And holding the fretboard higher up, like classical, as a few of you said, the fretboard closer to my body and my elbow pushed forward for that gap between palm and neck.
I fully understand what you guys are saying here, BUT..... it seems like I am the exact opposite. I am finding that if I try to barre in the way you guys suggest, I can't get anything to ring out except maybe both E strings and the others that I am fretting with the other fingers (OK I guess if you are fretting all other strings with other fingers, hehe). Anyways, I am trying to do something that mainly just moves around the fretboard with a barre and just the Em shape with the ring and pinky (355333 for example, then sliding all around with that.) If I am using the tip of my pointer finger on the low E, I can't get the G and B string to sound at all no matter how much I push, help with the index finger, adjust my thumb, or roll my pointer finger around. But if I extend my pointer finger up so that the low E is around underneath the knuckle area, All the strings ring out fine.


   
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(@minotaur)
Noble Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 1089
 

But if I extend my pointer finger up so that the low E is around underneath the knuckle area, All the strings ring out fine.

Oh, well then that will work. 8) As long as you can get the chord to ring, use what works. Everyone's hands and fingers are different. I have a new teacher, and when I tell him "... but I did X, is it right?" He'll say "Yeah, that's fine, it'll work. There's always another way of doing something". It doesn't have to be guitar canon or orthodox. :wink:

It is difficult to answer when one does not understand the question.


   
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