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CAGED sequence--minor scales

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slejhamer
(@slejhamer)
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But it sure seems like Kirk Lorange's method of following the chord tones for playing solos is the way to go.

+1

Well, it's not the only way to go, obviously, but it sure seems more logical than Fretboard Logic.

"Everybody got to elevate from the norm."


   
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yournightmare
(@yournightmare)
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Fretboard Logic is wrong. A pentatonic scale is not a major scale, and the notes of the C major pentatonic scale are entirely contained within THREE different major scales. I've already proven that in my earlier post.

--LOL! I never said it was the major scale and I never said Fretboard Logic said it was the major scale (at least I don't think I did). I said they just call it the C scale. Not the C major scale. Because you keep insisting on saying it's NOT the C major scale, can I assume that when people say "C scale" they usually mean the C major scale?

And thanks for finally understanding what I was trying to ask and letting me know it was wrong! Obviously I could never be a teacher like you if I can't even explain something that I want to know.
The best way to learn major/minor scales is by memorizing the spellings and learning the position of the notes on the fretboard. There are only 12 steps in a chromatic scale... learn the major scale on each one and you've learned something that's applicable to lots more in music. Learn all the possible "pattern" of the major scale and you've done nearly as much work - there are 11 possible fingerings - without any of the benefit the scale spellings provide for learning chord structure, theory, harmony, arranging....

--I have your book. Is this covered in your book? I've only glanced inside of the book so far, I'm not even sure what all's in it.

For whatever reason, I've suddenly taken an interest in theory and how the fretboard works. Shortcuts aren't too important to me, as long as I learn useful information. If it takes longer to learn it, so be it. But, I thought I had actually figured something out on my own there--turns out I'm just a dumbass.

And like I said before, if I sounded like an asshole I apologize. That's just the way I write, and when I'm having a disagreement with someone or explaining something to someone, I just get the feeling some of them will misinterpret my tone as being rude when that's not the way I mean to come across.


   
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NoteBoat
(@noteboat)
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Ok, I went back and re-read, and I don't think you said it was the major scale... but that's what I got from it, because you'd talked about "diatonic" scales, and had tabbed out a major scale. But if you were talking about major and minor pentatonic scales, you are right, and I was off on a tangent :)

Chapter 9 in my book covers the major scales, but I don't go into all the possible fingerings (and there's a printing error in the 4th illustration on p. 51 - hope that doesn't confuse you!)

Guitar teacher offering lessons in Plainfield IL


   
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pab
 pab
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i thought i would add something to this discussion, being someone who utilizes the Fretboard Logic SE book. I found this topic, and the underlying confusion that was involved, to be understandable.

i've been trying to learn the fingerings and memorizing the CAGED forms of the scales that Bill Edwards uses in his book. i'm getting them down but, being a beginner, ran into a little confusion. check out this thread here that i started:

http://forums.guitarnoise.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=37230

after help in that post, i agree that someone familiar with scales would recognize that these are pentatonic scales, so i accept part of the blame for not being able to understand that. however, for someone who goes on mini rants in his book about problems with other teachers or things that they shouldn't be doing, the author of Fretboard Logic (Bill Edwards) didn't do a good job of teaching this point.

now, further to that, i had a lesson yesterday with my teacher. this was the first time that i've told him that i'm working on pentatonic scales as we are work on songs mostly (i've been at guitar now almost 1 year and learn a lot just from doing the songs at this point). after mentioning this, he asked me to show him pattern 1 of the A minor pentatonic scale. i told him that i'm using a book that teaches scales as forms that are taught as C, A, G, E, and D forms. per his request, i tried to play the G form scale but in the second position. he looked at me a little puzzled, said he's never heard of it done this way, and asked me to bring in his book for the next lesson. he then showed me what can be done with a pentatonic scale by creating a simple loop of a chord progression and then improvising over it. i was very impressed.

i went home and read about using a chord progression while playing a pentatonic scale. an example was using the following progression (Bmin, Emin, F#min, Emin) while improvising playing a B minor pentonic scale. i tried that, used Fretboard Logic, took the G form, and played it in the 4th position. it didn't sound right at all.

i then looked into this further, not only utilizing Bill Edwards book (Fretboard Logic) but also a theory book and blues you can use. i noticed that the G scale form, as Bill Edwards calls it, is pattern #1 in the BYCU book. then i noticed that Bill Edwards calls his scale, in the open position, a G scale, while BYCU calls it an E minor Pentatonic scale. here is my post yesterday regarding this:

http://forums.guitarnoise.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=37964&p=348042#p348042

As you can see, i have had ample confusion with the Fretboard Logic book (and it appears others have as well), and this thread reminded me of it. Referring to the G form open scale as simply a G scale doesn't help, and (please point it out to me if i'm wrong) he doesn't point out whether it is major or minor.

cutting out unnecessary parts and teaching bare bones to get someone started can be useful. simple can be good. i just think he cut out a little too much information. i can certainly understand how different terminologies utilized in this thread have created confusion amongst the members. then again, i don't believe he states that his book is for beginners and perhaps more intermediate or advanced players will recognize, just by looking, that these are the major pentatonic scales that he's teaching.

pab


   
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MCH
 MCH
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I'll try to explain my approach on this. This is how I approached this.
First you should understand keys. For every major key there is a relative minor. In your chord progressions I would call this D major key because of the F#minor. In your example Bm, the Dmajor key is it's relative. Now if you're using pentatonics for improvising scales you can use the Bm pent or the Dmaj pent or both (they have the same notes). Each of these pentatonic scales have five box positions that will cover a lot of fretboard; but the notes will always be the same but in different areas of the fretboard. To start off there are five basic box patterns. Once you have learned the five box patterns you can play the pent scales in a lot of areas of the fretboard. The starting point of Box pattern 1 is determined by the key; Bm pent 1 would start on the 6th string fret 7 (B note). The next position Box pattern 2, would start on the 6th string fret 10. In this pentatonic scale (Bm) the next Box pattern 3, you have a choice of where to start; at the 12th fret or at the nut. From the 12th fret up is a repeat of the nut to the 12th fret. Once you've learnt the five box position of the minor pent scale starting on the 6th string you will see that Box patterns for the major pentatonic scales is exactly the same; other than your starting Box pattern 1 is actually the same as Box pattern 2 of the minor pentatonic scale. In this example the Dmajor pentatonic (relative of the Bm pentatonic) would start on the 6th string 10th fret. The Dmaj and Bm scale have the same notes. Now how you use these notes in order to give you a minor flavour or major flavour is your musical interpretation.
Of course there is lot more to this. Extended box patterns and box patterns starting on the 5th string.
Then you can fill out the box patterns to give you full major and minor scales or add one note for the blues scale. Etc, Etc
this is just my take and it works for me to this point.


   
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