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do pick ups really make a differene

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(@almann1979)
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Joined: 16 years ago
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i have very cheap pickups in my guitar - i dont know the make, but they are cheap, and as a result my tone is pretty poor. however, a friend at work brought a little red pod (which mimicks different amps and sounds), and my guitar sounded awesome through it - better than i could ever have imagined.
so my question is this - is it better to invest in decent pickups, or just to buy one of these clever pod devices (i dont know what their name is but im sure a lot of people here will). also, how important is the amp. i have a peavey valveking 212- i'd like to think i dont need to shell out for anything more expensive??

"I like to play that guitar. I have to stare at it while I'm playing it because I'm not very good at playing it."
Noel Gallagher (who took the words right out of my mouth)


   
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(@scrybe)
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lol, everything's important.

the little red pod is a Line 6 Pod (one of the variants, dunno what model number they're up to these days) and yup its an amp simulator. Line 6 are pretty good at this and are the dominant name in that area of business, at least as far as brand-awareness goes (not sure about sales). They're good, but generally better, imho, for recording than gigging situations.

the Peavey will be more than adequate, until you get GAS again, anyway. :wink:

the pickups you use will make a big difference to overall sound, no matter what else is going on. so its worth looking at upgrading at some point, irrespective of whether or not you get a pod.

basically, everything between your fingers and the final sound makes a difference. if one part of that line-up is very weak, then it doesn't matter how great the rest of it is, it'll still sound poor. a crap guitar through the best amp in the world will still be a crap guitar. likewise, the greatest guitar in the world through a crappy amp will still sound like crap. the key is finding a quality-balance across all the gear you use.

imho, the main areas to look at when considering that are......guitar wood, pups, any pedals, amp. your amp is fine, from what I know of your axe, the wood s fine too. dunno what pedals you use, but the pod might be worth considering. if the pups are cheap, that will be noticable.

your guitar may have sounded better through the pod than when you've played it before, but consider how a better guitar would sound through the pod..... :roll:

Decent pups needn't cost the earth either. And you can always keep them to use on future guitars should you one day feel your current axe is no longer cutting the mustard.

hth

*Scrybe - promoting and rationalising GAS since 1984*

Ra Er Ga.

Ninjazz have SuperChops.

http://www.blipfoto.com/Scrybe


   
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(@ricochet)
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Oh yes, different pickups do sound different.

But the price of the pickups does not necessarily correspond to their sound. They're very straightforward electromagnetic devices. Players who know what they've paid for the pickups will always believe the pricier ones sound incredibly better, of course.

A pickup is analogous to a microphone. Singers sound different through different mics, too.

Pickups are only one part of a chain of things that affect the sound, and not the most important part. (That'd be the amp.) If you use lots of effects and distortion, their tonal effects get blurred out considerably.

As is often said, to a considerable extent "tone is in the hands." Work on playing technique first. Worry about gear upgrades later. As for the gear, learn how to use the controls on your guitar and amp. Make sure you learn how to set up your guitar. Pickup height adjustments can impact your sound more than most people realize. Things like changing tone capacitor sizes (and using the tone controls) can make HUGE differences, without spending much money at all.

I have a strong aversion to buying a guitar and first thing jumping in to change pickups. I think if you're going to replace pickups, you need to have a very definite idea of exactly what characteristics of the ones you've got need to be changed.

"A cheerful heart is good medicine."


   
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(@almann1979)
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Topic starter  

thanks scrybe and ricochet - great advice.

scrybe - you know my guitar, the pedals i use are a boss overdrive and an ml2 metal core distortion, i also use a boss delay pedal and a cry baby wah.
ricochet, i agree with what you said, but i cant seem to find a decent sound i like, and i am sure this is a lot to do with my untrained ear and i will keep trying, but if you or scrybe can think of any possible adjustments i could make to my set up i would be very aprreciative.
scrybe, i know you do guitar work yourself.. i have no free time or free weekends until august, but if you think anything needs doing to my setup which you could do give me a PM with a quote an i will get back to you. thank you both. Al

"I like to play that guitar. I have to stare at it while I'm playing it because I'm not very good at playing it."
Noel Gallagher (who took the words right out of my mouth)


   
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(@scrybe)
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what's the pickup height like? that might also be affecting tone. try raising the pups a bit using the screws on either side of the pup (screwed into the pup hlder on your guitar, I believe).

Ric made some good points there, its always worth spending some time listening to gear you're not satisfied with before trying to change it. in this case, plug your guitar straight into your amp on an amp setting you'r used to. then mess around with different pup combinations, and the tone and volume controls. make a note of anythin specific you do/don't like about it and try to be a bit descriptive. if there's a similar style guitar on a record that you like the sound of, make a note of that. these things can help you decide what to look for if you do go for an upgrade.

also, the pickup covers can affect tone a fair bit. changing these is a lot cheaper than changing the pickup itself. although, with cheap pups the two seem to be pretty tightly welded together, ime. My Epiphone is like this, removing the pup covers on the original pups would be a bit of a hassle. if the pup covers are chrome (as is often the case, and not just on budget axes), changing to nickel covers can have a marked improvement.

and with pickup upgrades invariably also comes checking the rest of the electronics. they'll have less of an impact than pups do, but if your guitar has cheap pots and capacitors, this will also reduce the capabilites of even the best pups. If you're gonna get some electrical work done, you may as well upgrade the whole lot at once than doing it in instalments (pots and capacitors are only a few quid, we're not talking hundreds or anything here).

how far are you from me? I don't drive, which would make things a slight hassle, but I'll gladly take a look at it and see if there's any adjustments to the current setup that might help things. no charge. oh, actually, I do have one idea...................

I still have the original pups off my Epiphone. Like I said, they're not great, but they're not at all bad and probably an improvement on yours. If you want them, let me know.

Ra Er Ga.

Ninjazz have SuperChops.

http://www.blipfoto.com/Scrybe


   
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(@almann1979)
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Topic starter  

well i am right on either the m66 or m65, but as my family are from huyton, i know t takes me 50 minutes to get there. not sure where that is in relation to you though?
any chance i could send you an mp3 of my playing and you could have a listen and give your opinion? i did try the soundclick site you suggested but it only accepted videos, not mp3's?
if you can think of any improvements you could do ill drop it off myself over the school hols (im a teacher, not a pupil :-) )

"I like to play that guitar. I have to stare at it while I'm playing it because I'm not very good at playing it."
Noel Gallagher (who took the words right out of my mouth)


   
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(@scrybe)
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Consider yourself pm'd.

Ra Er Ga.

Ninjazz have SuperChops.

http://www.blipfoto.com/Scrybe


   
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(@trguitar)
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I have to second what Ric said ........... pickups will sound different, but cheap doesn't = bad necessarily. They are just wire, plastic and magnets. I realize there are a variety of factors that will affect the tone and power of the pickup, but using for example a Duncan Designed pickup ...... made overseas to the specs Seymour Duncan lays out. Cheaper, but should sound reasonably similar to the "real" Duncans. I've got some cheap pickups that came on cheap guitars and they sound great. Some not so. If they sound OK, I leave them. If I have an issue, I shop for a replacement and this is usually because I want a humbucker or hotter pickup. The guitar/pickup combination makes a real difference too. Some pickups will sound better with some guitars just as some guitars sound better with some amps. This is just my opinion of course.

"Work hard, rock hard, eat hard, sleep hard,
grow big, wear glasses if you need 'em."
-- The Webb Wilder Credo --


   
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(@trguitar)
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I just wanted to add that the replacement pickups I have bought were humbuckers that fit into single coil spaces. This is a drastic change in the sound. I have an Epiphone SG that I found the pickups to sound muddy and I replaced those with ones from even cheaper guitars and I am OK with that because they sounded brighter and compliment the SG's dark tone better. I do own guitars that came with "good" pickups. I have a Kramer that came with a set of Duncans, a JB and a Pearly Gates. They are nice but not enough of a difference that I would have shelled out $100 a piece to put these pickups in one of my Les Pauls ... or even my $300 Schecter for that matter. But thats just me, some people like to tweak their guitars and that is why the whole industry of replacement pickups exists. Now my Strat and Tele I shelled out $89 a piece for those Duncan Hot Rails ..... they sound nice, however I recently installed a $35 duncan Design single coil sized humbucker into a friends guitar and it sounded great. Did I really need the real thing? Mute point as mine are old enough that when I bought them they were the only show in town.

"Work hard, rock hard, eat hard, sleep hard,
grow big, wear glasses if you need 'em."
-- The Webb Wilder Credo --


   
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(@kblake)
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Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 323
 

My experience..

I have a 2006 Fender Strat (made in Mexico) which I played through a Roland Micro Cube mainly the clean channels and to me it sounded ok but I was never really happy with the neck and middle pick ups I usually used the bridge pick up most of the times..

But then I got myself a second hand Peavey Classic 30 watt all tube amp the difference (to me) was astronomical... :D
The neck and middle pick ups just seemed to come alive. It made a huge difference to the overall tone of the guitar.
I also have a Fender Squier 51 (thanks to this newsgroup) which also while I was happy with it sounds much better through the Peavey.

So in my opinion a GOOD AMP is is much more important than a Good guitar..

Cheers

Keith

I know a little bit about a lot of things, but not a lot about anything...
Looking for people to jam with in Sydney Oz.......


   
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(@greybeard)
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For an idea of how different pickups can sound different go to a pickup manufacturer's page and listen to some sound samples (Try here).

One thing that will often improve a cheap (but not necessarily bad) pickup is wax potting (especially if it tends to be microphonic). It's easier and cheaper than replacing something that doesn't need replacing, just upgrading.

I started with nothing - and I've still got most of it left.
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(@rahul)
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Not more than you make them by yourself.


   
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(@rparker)
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i have very cheap pickups in my guitar - i dont know the make, but they are cheap, and as a result my tone is pretty poor. however, a friend at work brought a little red pod (which mimicks different amps and sounds), and my guitar sounded awesome through it - better than i could ever have imagined.
so my question is this - is it better to invest in decent pickups, or just to buy one of these clever pod devices (i dont know what their name is but im sure a lot of people here will). also, how important is the amp. i have a peavey valveking 212- i'd like to think i dont need to shell out for anything more expensive??

So, back to Allmann's original post. He wrote "however, a friend at work brought a little red pod (which mimicks different amps and sounds), and my guitar sounded awesome through it - better than i could ever have imagined." He played his guitar through a digitally remastered amp model that actually pumped it out to his Peavey. Getting him to that tone he liked will mean not the pickups, but the pedals the Pod mimicked and possibly the amp. Just my thought, but I'm thinking pod.

Roy
"I wonder if a composer ever intentionally composed a piece that was physically impossible to play and stuck it away to be found years later after his death, knowing it would forever drive perfectionist musicians crazy." - George Carlin


   
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(@almann1979)
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Joined: 16 years ago
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Topic starter  

thanks very much. some great help there

"I like to play that guitar. I have to stare at it while I'm playing it because I'm not very good at playing it."
Noel Gallagher (who took the words right out of my mouth)


   
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(@kingpatzer)
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Different pickups sound differently.

Reading through your other posts, I sense you're a fairly new beginner -- not understanding scales, arpeggios, and a host of other basics. A beginner has a lot of other factors that matter a lot more to deal with before the sound chain becomes the biggest concern of the day.

Honestly, if that is correct, I'd not worry about. Save to upgrade your whole guitar at some point, but until then, work on the basics. Quite a lot more of sounding good has to do with being good than having cool toys. That comes from hard work and years of dedicated playing, not from pickups.

Eric Clapton on the cheapest guitar in the store will most likely sound better than I do on the most expensive. Even with a cool little pod thingy.

"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." -- HST


   
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