fretboard

The short answer is that they are the same note, but they need different names, depending on which key you're playing in.

The long answer can cover rather a lot of ground, but I'll try and see if I can shorten it a bit!

Basically you have 12 notes but only seven letter names ( A to G), so the notes "in between" are called sharps and /or flats. The music staff also only has lines and spaces for the seven basic letter names A, B, C, D E F and G.

As you can only use each letter once, the result is that to fit the way music is written, the same note sometimes has to have more than one name.

More to follow....

Examples:

1. Key of A

A, B, C#, D, E, F#, G# (All seven notes represented on the seven available lines or spaces on the staff)

2. Key of E flat (Eb)

Eb, F, G, Ab, Bb, C, D (again, all seven positions used)

The Ab is exactly same note as the G# in the previous key, but the G line is already needed for the natural G note. So we call it Ab in this case.

The Eb is also the same note as a D# but we can't call it D# as the line for D is already needed for the natural note D.

And so on.

So why not have a bigger staff and just name the notes A B C D E F G H I J K and L and drop all this sharp/flat stuff?? Historical reasons.... Leave at that for now!!

Hope this at least makes SOME sense!!!

My question is why is there two notes ?

In actual fact, there aren't two notes the same. There are really two separate notes, e.g. A# and Bb. However, to make instruments workable (and tunable), the "well-tempered" system was invented, which amalgamated these twwo notes into one, which is why we now have these "enharmonic" notes.
And if i play that note what do i say it is ?

That would depend on the key that you're playing in. You don't mix flats and sharps in one key, nor do you have two notes with the same name. Take E - E, F#, G#, A, B, C#, D#, E - and take the key Bb - Bb, C, D, Eb, F, G, A, Bb.

In E, you have a D#, which fits in with the other notes (no two the same name and those that are not natural are all sharp).

In Bb, we have an Eb, which is enharmonic with D#, but I can't call it that, because I already have a D and the other non-natural notes are flats, not sharps.

Aren't you confusing the issue a bit Greybeard?

We don't have two different notes on the guitar now, just the one. One fret - one note.

Surely, the different names are still needed to fit the staff and that's it. No??

We don't have two different notes on the guitar now, just the one.
The question ".....is why is there two notes ?" was posed. I gave him a reply to explain, at least, the background to that.
One fret - one note.
Wrong. One fret - one TONE - two NOTES. Actually with additional accidentals it can be more (## and bb) - e.g. A is also G## as well as Bbb.
Surely, the different names are still needed to fit the staff and that's it. No??
No - read my answer in my last post.
Also, take the two keys Eb and D#.
Eb, F, G, Ab, Bb, C, D, Eb
D#, E#, F##, G#, A#, B#, C##, D#
They are enharmonic equivalents - but which do you want to see on a sheet of music, Eb or D#? D# would "fit the staff", so would that be your choice?

Mate, this is the beginners's Q & A section, not the Theory forum.

I just don't want to pop the poor guys brain! :shock:

From a beginner's point of view there are two different names for the same note. Yes, it's more accurate to say "tone" but I think that it is somewhat splitting hairs when it comes to explaining things to a beginner. I know when I was starting out on theory, "tone" would have made me think either of the sound quality of the guitar or perhaps something I could achieve by hitting the string differently.

But if you want to bring enharmonics and different temperaments in that's your right. I just don't think that it's what deanobeano was looking for.

I could be wrong of course. :D And I appear to have unintentionally annoyed you. So I'll leave you to it. :)

OK, quick and probably stupid follow up question...

When you see notes on a musical staff, at the beginning you sometimes see # or b symbols on certain lines/spaces of the staff. Would this essentially change the value of the line/space on the staff? Having a flat symbol on the B line would make that note be read as Bb?

Musical staff ! Is that not something to help you walk with if you have a gammy leg. :lol:

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OK, quick and probably stupid follow up question...

When you see notes on a musical staff, at the beginning you sometimes see # or b symbols on certain lines/spaces of the staff. Would this essentially change the value of the line/space on the staff? Having a flat symbol on the B line would make that note be read as Bb?

You're essentially right. It not only changes that B to Bb, it changes EVERY B to a Bb (in the higher and lower octaves), even though the lines/spaces are not explictly marked with #/b. To get a B, you'd have to mark it with the natural sign and it would, then, only be valid for the currrent bar/measure.

OK, quick and probably stupid follow up question...

When you see notes on a musical staff, at the beginning you sometimes see # or b symbols on certain lines/spaces of the staff. Would this essentially change the value of the line/space on the staff? Having a flat symbol on the B line would make that note be read as Bb?
I think you are confusing it just a little.
When # or b is marked at the beginning you count how many #s or bs are there, what line it is on is not important. (that is the Key Signature and tells you what notes are either sharp or flat throughout the piece or until a new key signature is marked)
Now a NOTE marked # or b or even nuetral is an accidental and that note and any of the same note in the same measure/bar that follows that note is played that way. the next measure reverts back to the original key.
2 examples.
1.You have a piece of music and there are 3 #s marked at the beginning. you are in the key of A meaning all Fs, Cs and Gs are played Sharp.
2. 2 bars into the same piece there are 4 Bs all quarter notes and 4 Bs in the next bar after that, again quarter notes. (as you know already Bs are natural in the key of A) the second B is marked Bb. you play the first B natural, the second, third and fourth Bs are flat. all 4 Bs in the next bar are back to the original key so they are Natural.
Note:Key signatures typically appear between the treble staff and the time signature. accidentals mark specific notes and appear with that note.

OK, quick and probably stupid follow up question...

When you see notes on a musical staff, at the beginning you sometimes see # or b symbols on certain lines/spaces of the staff. Would this essentially change the value of the line/space on the staff? Having a flat symbol on the B line would make that note be read as Bb?
I think you are confusing it just a little.
When # or b is marked at the beginning you count how many #s or bs are there, what line it is on is not important.
The lines they're on are very important. It's true that you don't normally recognize key signatures by the lines they're on, but they always mark the lines (and spaces) they affect. Most people do memorize them by the number of sharps or flats. So if you see one sharp, you know it's the key of G. If you see four flats, then you know it's in A flat.

Thanks Paul,
You are right. I was never taught it this way but the sharps and flats do indead line with with the actual notes invovled.
Flat Key Signatures

Sharp Key Signatures