Guitar Modes

Yep, modes are confusing. A lot of people who try to explain modes don't really understand them either.

The first mistake you're making is in thinking that a mode is at some fret - it isn't. Modes are NOT fingerings - they're scales. A scale is any set of pitches that rises through an octave, and modes qualify. So think of them as scales, and not as some inter-related mystical thing. It's going to take me a little space to write this out so bear with me.

Because modes are scales, they can be played in many different places. For example, this is a C major scale (or the Ionian mode):

-----------------
-------------0-1-
---------0-2-----
---0-2-3---------
-3---------------
-----------------


This is the SAME C major scale:

-----------------
-----------------
-----------2-4-5-
-----2-3-5-------
-3-5-------------
-----------------


So is this:

-----------------
-----------------
-------------4-5-
-------3-5-7-----
-3-5-7-----------
-----------------


And this:

-----------------
-----------------
---------------5-
---------5-7-9---
---5-7-8---------
-8---------------


I could write out at least a few more - but you get the idea. They are all the SAME C scale - identical pitches. So when you ask "what fret am I supposed to be on?" the answer is: it doesn't matter. Pick any mode, and you'll be able to play it in almost any position. Some will be easier than others, but 11 out of 12 will actually work (the only position you can't play a C major scale in is the 11th, because that's the only fret that doesn't have any notes in the scale)

My advice in learning modes would be to learn the major scale FIRST, in several different fingerings. Learn the natural minor SECOND, again in several different fingerings.

Then ignore any advice that says anything like "the D Dorian is the C major starting from D". It's technically true - but practically useless. If you want to be playing in D Dorian, you need to be THINKING in D, not C.

So after you've learned the first two, learn the next four by altering notes in the ones you know:

Lydian is the same as major with the first note raised. Go back to the first C scale I posted, and play it raising the fourth note. You'll have C Lydian.

-----------------
-----------------
-----------2-4-5-
-----2-4-5-------
-3-5-------------
-----------------


Mixolydian is the same as major with the seventh note lowered.

-----------------
-----------------
-----------2-3-5-
-----2-3-5-------
-3-5-------------
-----------------


Go to your minor scales and change one note to get others. Here's A natural minor at the 5th fret:

-----------------
-----------------
-----------------
-------------5-7-
-------5-7-8-----
-5-7-8-----------


Lower the second note and you have A Phrygian:

-----------------
-----------------
-----------------
-------------5-7-
-------5-7-8-----
-5-6-8-----------


Raise the sixth note and you have A Dorian:

-----------------
-----------------
-----------------
-------------5-7-
-------5-7-9-----
-5-7-8-----------


If you need Locrian, learn it last. It's the Phrygian with the fifth note lowered.

Thank you so much, this answers it completely! All the youtube stuff, or online stuff I've found doesn't explain that at all, they just show the fingering scales. Thanks again for all the hard work involved in this, much appreciated!

Modes aren't particularly useful without knowing which tones should be targeted for emphasis and which should be avoided in order to express the harmony you intend. The standard explanation of modes is really trying to say: target the root of the mode instead of one of the other tones in the scale. But nobody says it, they leave it as implied.

It's better to not think of modes or scales, but to think of which tones establish the harmony that you want.
An Ionian harmony in the key of C is: C D E G A. Avoid "F" avoid "B"
A Dorian harmony in the key of C is D E F G A C. Avoid "B".
A Phrygian harmony is E G A B D. Avoid "F" avoid "C".
etc.

Avoid tones create an unintended harmony. That is why you avoid them.

The root and fifth establish the chord center, so if you target the root or fifth of the mode, you are helping to establish that.

I have to disagree.

In fact, I have to disagree with this in so many ways, it's hard to tell where to start.

1. There is no such thing as an "Ionian harmony" (or "Dorian harmony" or any other). Scales are scales. Harmony is what happens when there are simultaneous events. While there are different systems of harmony, a harmony is never a scale, nor a scale a harmony. "Modal harmony" does exist; it's created by a chord vamp that avoids a V-I cadence, and avoids the use of dominant chords, as these two effects tend to designate a tonal center. But vamping on a Dm-Em change will not define the key as "Dorian" - it will simply be undefined by the chord progression, allowing you to play in either D Dorian or D Aeolian without conflict (and in other scales as well if you can manage the tensions created).

2. What you define as an "Ionian harmony" isn't Ionian... it's the major pentatonic scale. That's what you get when you leave out the "avoid tones". What you define as "Phrygian harmony" is the minor pentatonic, and your "Dorian harmony" is a hexatonic scale. The one inflected pitch that separates the D Dorian scale from the D natural minor is B - the one you advise avoiding. Avoid it you CAN'T sound Dorian! (You'll sound minor, sure, but not Dorian.)

3. The reason people use an "avoid tone" approach is to avoid ANY conflict as much as possible. That tends to make improvisations safe... and bland. As you gain experience improvising, you want to control - not avoid - dissonance. Improvisation is simply composing on the fly, and no composer would ever avoid the leading tone in creating melodies as a matter of course. Ultimately you want to make the dissonances part of your composing or improvising, but you want to be able to choose when they occur. Avoid tones make sense when you're at the "poke and pray" level of improvising; as you learn, and as your ear improves, you should stop thinking in those terms.

4. It's the motion from the fifth to the root that generally establishes a chord center (in an authentic cadence), not the pitches themselves. The root and fifth can't define a key, because they belong to more than one key. The pitches C and G are found in the keys of C, G, F, Bb, Eb, and Ab. That's HALF of the keys! Only two tones can truly define a tonality - and they are the avoid tones! (Only the key of C contains both F and B as natural notes.) And defining the tonality - the tones used in a piece - is even more general than defining a modality - the combination of the tonality and the tonal center.

There is some value in taking a limited approach when you're learning - using a pentatonic scale at first (i.e., avoiding tones). But you shouldn't confuse simplification with playing in a mode; they're different musical elements.

I have to disagree.

In fact, I have to disagree with this in so many ways, it's hard to tell where to start.

1. There is no such thing as an "Ionian harmony" (or "Dorian harmony" or any other). Scales are scales. Harmony is what happens when there are simultaneous events.

The point of improvisation is to infer harmony through a linear line. When people talk about a mode, what they are really saying is that they are emphasing certain tones and avoiding other tones, so as to infer a particular harmony. Therefore, if you are playing an "Ionian mode" you actually are emphasizing the root of that mode, so as to establish a Imaj harmony.

It is true that a scale (when all tones are treated equally) does not imply harmony, which is why the "chord-scale" or "mode" approach as normally taught, is not a good approach to learning how to improvise.
While there are different systems of harmony, a harmony is never a scale, nor a scale a harmony.

There's no point in knowing a scale unless you can use it to imply harmony.
"Modal harmony" does exist; it's created by a chord vamp that avoids a V-I cadence, and avoids the use of dominant chords, as these two effects tend to designate a tonal center. But vamping on a Dm-Em change will not define the key as "Dorian" - it will simply be undefined by the chord progression, allowing you to play in either D Dorian or D Aeolian without conflict (and in other scales as well if you can manage the tensions created).

Next time you play a mode, notice which tones you tend to emphasize and which tones you tend to avoid. As it turns out, those tones actually correspond to the allowed tensions or avoid tones for the diatonic chord equivalent.
2. What you define as an "Ionian harmony" isn't Ionian... it's the major pentatonic scale.

That's what you get when you leave out the "avoid tones". What you define as "Phrygian harmony" is the minor pentatonic, and your "Dorian harmony" is a hexatonic scale. The one inflected pitch that separates the D Dorian scale from the D natural minor is B - the one you advise avoiding. Avoid it you CAN'T sound Dorian! (You'll sound minor, sure, but not Dorian.)

Actually when you include it in your "modal improvisation" what you are really doing is switching the harmony to one of the other diatonic harmonies for which that "b" is an allowed tone or tension.
3. The reason people use an "avoid tone" approach is to avoid ANY conflict as much as possible. That tends to make improvisations safe... and bland.

Not true. All improvisation must avoid certain tones so as not to imply unintended changes in harmony. It doesn't matter the improvisation, whether it is safe or complex. The choice of avoid tones actually has to do with two things: the key of the moment, the chord of the moment and the chord's place in the harmonic progression (its relationship to the next chord).
As you gain experience improvising, you want to control - not avoid - dissonance.

The purpose of avoid tones is not to avoid dissonance, it is to establish a logical and smooth transition from one harmony to the next. The choice of avoid tones goes hand in hand with the choice of target tones that receive special emphasis during improvisation. Musicians use different terms for these targets. I've heard them called pivots. One of my buddies who specializes in straightahead jazz calls them fulcrums.
Improvisation is simply composing on the fly, and no composer would ever avoid the leading tone in creating melodies as a matter of course.

Yes. See my comment above.
There is some value in taking a limited approach when you're learning - using a pentatonic scale at first (i.e., avoiding tones). But you shouldn't confuse simplification with playing in a mode; they're different musical elements.

As I said above, when you play in a mode, you actually are switching between the different harmonies. If you play C Ionian, when you hit that "B" or "F" tones, you are inferring one of the other harmonies, even if only in passing. This is the thing that "modal" players don't really understand. They think they're doing something new which is not diatonic, but in fact all you're doing is inferring diatonic chord progressions that may not have a typical cadence type of structure to them.

You've thought about it more than many people, but you haven't thought it through enough.

One more thing for the fellow who I responded to:

Next time you improvise in modal style, pay attention to anytime you avoid a tone, and think about why you avoided that particular tone at that moment. The answer points back to diatonic harmony.

Keep in mind the following things:

- in some circumstances, an "avoid tone" can be safely played as a "passing tone" without affecting the harmony
- in other circumstances an "avoid tone" cannot be played even in passing without changing the harmony

This is true both for tonal harmony and for modal playing.

As I said in my first post, a lot of people who try to explain modes don't understand them.
The point of improvisation is to infer harmony through a linear line

The point of improvising is to create a melody. Melodies may infer a harmony, either directly (through the use of arpeggio) or indirectly (through an extended consonance or dissonance with the existing harmony), but people don't improvise because they want to create a different harmony - they do it to create a melody.
Next time you play a mode, notice which tones you tend to emphasize and which tones you tend to avoid.

The tones I tend to emphasize when I'm playing modally are the ones that define the mode, the ones that differentiate the mode from the base scale of the key. If I'm playing in Dorian, I'm emphasizing the natural sixth - the ONE note that separates the Dorian mode from the natural minor scale of the same key (and the one note you say should be avoided for that mode!). If I'm playing in Lydian, I'm emphasizing the #4, if I'm in Mixolydian it's the b7, and if I'm in Phrygian it's the b2. If you DON'T emphasize those tones, you won't sound modal. And if you don't sound modal, what's the point of using a mode?
when you include it (for clarity, you meant "it" as the natural sixth in Dorian) in your "modal improvisation" what you are really doing is switching the harmony to one of the other diatonic harmonies for which that "b" is an allowed tone or tension

Not so. When you are switching from one modal scale to another - in this case, from D Aeolian to D Dorian, you are making use of a compositional technique called "parallel scales". Many guitarists call this "pitch axis", because that's how Joe Satriani describes it... but "pitch axis" is actually an entirely different compositional technique pioneered by Bela Bartok. I'll skip delving into that, since it's outside the scope of modes.
The choice of avoid tones actually has to do with two things: the key of the moment, the chord of the moment and the chord's place in the harmonic progression (its relationship to the next chord).

The key of the moment has nothing to do with modes - unless you're playing a modal piece that changes keys (like Miles Davis' "So What", which modulates from D to Eb as the tonic). The chord of the moment is implied by the existing harmony, which you have no control over, and the melody you're playing, which you do control. Play a Bb over a C chord and you imply C7. You only avoid tones for harmonies you don't want to create. And you can create whatever you want - as John McLaughlin said, any chord can follow any other chord. The chord's place in the progression also has no place in discussing modes - unless it's a dominant 7th chord, which is the only chord that truly defines the harmonic key of the moment. Creating a list of blanket "avoid tones" is limiting. And as your "avoid tone" for Dorian was the single tone that DEFINES the Dorian mode, it's not an approach I would recommend.
The choice of avoid tones goes hand in hand with the choice of target tones that receive special emphasis during improvisation. Musicians use different terms for these targets. I've heard them called pivots.

Yes, avoid tones can go hand in hand with target tones. But avoiding B in the key of C major means you''ve got three logical choices: a G-C descending fifth, A D-C movement as part of a descending stepwise run, or an E-C movement or rising G-C movement as part of an arpeggio. Look over the vast majority of music - either composed or improvised - and you'll find that when B is used in the key of C, it logically moves to C. That's why it's called the "leading tone" - it leads into the tonic.

Pivots are another thing entirely. Within a melody, a "pivot" is a tone that belongs to both the chord when it's struck and the chord of resolution (if you have an F-C chance, C is the pivot, because it belongs to both chords). Within a harmony, a "pivot" is a chord that belongs to both keys during the course of a modulation. If you change from the key of C to the key of Bb, the Dm is a pivot chord - it's the ii in C, and the iii in Bb.
when you play in a mode, you actually are switching between the different harmonies. If you play C Ionian, when you hit that "B" or "F" tones, you are inferring one of the other harmonies, even if only in passing. This is the thing that "modal" players don't really understand. They think they're doing something new which is not diatonic, but in fact all you're doing is inferring diatonic chord progressions that may not have a typical cadence type of structure to them.

No, when you play in a mode you're using a modal scale. The altered notes provide a sense of surprise from the expected tonality. If you play in C Ionian, both B and F are scale tones. Yes, they are special tones - because they are the only two that lie a half step from another scale tone; unless they are present in a scalar run, the B will naturally lead to C, and the F will naturally gravitate to E.

The term "diatonic" means "through the tones" and it refers to any scale which has one each of all seven letters. Diatonic scales include all major and minor scales, all modes, and some other scales. Cadences have nothing to do with modes - they are a feature of harmony (although melodic cadences do exist, they're also outside of a discussion of modes).
You've thought about it more than many people, but you haven't thought it through enough.

I would hope I've thought about it. I've been teaching music for 35 years.
Next time you improvise in modal style, pay attention to anytime you avoid a tone

That's a tall order. With every note I play, I'm avoiding the other eleven.
in some circumstances, an "avoid tone" can be safely played as a "passing tone" without affecting the harmony

In ALL circumstances a passing tone does not change the harmony, whether it's an "avoid tone" or not. That's why passing tones are one of the categories of what's known as "non-harmonic tones"
- in other circumstances an "avoid tone" cannot be played even in passing without changing the harmony

Not so. Harmony is harmony, and melody is melody. The melody interacts with the harmony. When the melody is part of the harmony, you get a consonance. When the melody is not part of the harmony, it can imply a harmonic extension - for example, if you play D against an F chord, you imply F6 or Dm7, depending on context. But when the melody is not part of the harmony or an extension, the melody note is a non-harmonic tone. It may be a passing tone, a neighbor tone, an appoggiatura... but it does NOT change the harmony; it simply doesn't belong to the harmony. That's why they're called "non-harmonic tones" as I mentioned above.

Well, since you don't believe me on this stuff, perhaps do a little reading: Bert Ligon, Johnny Mehegan. Other people talk about these concepts in similar manner. You obviously prefer to dismiss whatever it is I say, for the sake of dismissing everything, so perhaps other authoritative figures would be good for you to look at.

You're looking at things as harmony and melody being distinct, which you should not. As I said before, improvisation (of which melody is one kind) is the act of "implying a harmony in a linear fashion." It is a linear harmony rather than vertical, but it is harmony nonetheless. Again, you really don't seem to be buying this, so Bert Ligon wrote a book called "Connecting Chords with Linear Harmony", so perhaps you should reflect upon why he chose that particular title.

Just a quick note, there were a couple things you misinterpreted. I'm not talking at all about switching from one mode to the next (D Dorian to D Aeolian), I've talked only about the context of a single mode/ single key. When you switch modes, you're simply switching keys (modulating).

By "harmony" I mean chord tones plus allowed tensions (extensions.) Tensions do not change the harmony.

Emphasizing a "b" tone in a D Dorian mode is actually a Locrian harmony, not Dorian.

What I'm saying about modes can be easily demonstrated (again, staying in one key.). Pick a diatonic chord progression that does not (or only weakly) establish the tonal center of the key. That's what you're doing when you improvise in a modal manner.

And improvisation and melodies do imply harmony, and they usually do it in reference to a tonal center, although you can have non-standard harmonies.

A particular tone indeed CANNOT be used in all cases as a passing tone, this is why when you listen to improvisors who are not sophisticated, you sometimes hear them pass through a tone that does not sound like it belongs; while sophisticated improvisors always skip those tones.

Oh, I've done some reading. I've done a lot of it, actually; I've got a master's degree. But I know there's always more I can learn.

I don't take exception with people who disagree with me. I take exception with people who say that B is an avoid tone in D Dorian. I don't take exception because I don't agree - I take exception because that's flat out wrong.

I haven't read Bert Ligon's books. But I'm going one better: I'm writing to him to ask his opinion on the matter, and I'll post any response I receive. I'll probably get one, as I know a couple people who know him personally.

Stay tuned.

I don't take exception with people who disagree with me. I take exception with people who say that B is an avoid tone in D Dorian. I don't take exception because I don't agree - I take exception because that's flat out wrong.

The allowed tensions and chord tones for Dm7 include F, which means you cannot include the "B" otherwise you would have the tritone. Dorian is just another another term for the second mode of the key. People think modal playing is different than diatonic harmony, but it's not. It's just another twist on the basic diatonic concept. It's just a way of avoiding the standard dominant-tonic progression while still keeping everything in the key.

If you play a "B" tone in the D Dorian, what you are doing is changing to the different harmony of one of the other "diatonic" modes of the same key. That's all.

You've got seven tones to work with. If you go out of your way to de-emphasize tonality by playing those tones in non-standard sequences, it's "modal." As I said before, I can achieve the same effect without abandoning the diatonic model: simply construct a non-standard chord sequence, and improvise using the allowed chord tones and tensions for each of those chords. Walla! Modal playing. Now throw in a modulation, rinse and repeat.

Ok, now I understand where you're coming from. You don't understand modes, although you think you do.

Modes are scales. Scales do not change when a chord changes. If you play a C major scale, it does not magically become F Lydian if the chord of the moment is F.

Modes do not require chords. In fact, modes existed for hundreds of years before harmony. As a consequence of that, you can play D Dorian over any chord - or no chord at all. It's still D Dorian, because of the arrangement of intervals against the tonal center. Because of that fact, there is no requirement that a Dm7 be played against D Dorian. The chord might just as easily be Bm7b5 - in which case the B is a chord tone. The fact that you emphasize certain notes at certain times, and avoid certain notes at other times, does not change the scale you're using.

Yes, Dorian is often taught as "the second mode of a key". That thinking dates to a guy named Heinrich Glarens, and a theory book he wrote in 1547. Modes had already been around for hundreds of years before he got that idea; defining modes that way is a theoretical construct, not something that's innately modal.

If you are playing with the same seven notes, you cannot change modes at will, playing in F Lydian one moment and E Phrygian the next. You will not be able to establish a tonal center. We do not hear "Happy Birthday" as beginning in G Mixolydian - we hear the entire melody in C major. I know many guitarists do think in terms of changing modes over each chord. It's a waste of time, because it won't change the way your music is heard.

Ok, now I understand where you're coming from. You don't understand modes, although you think you do.

lol
Modes do not require chords.

You still don't get that a linear line always implies harmony, regardless of whether you play a chord on top of it or not
The chord might just as easily be Bm7b5 - in which case the B is a chord tone.

Locrian harmony in the key of C, as I already mentioned before
The fact that you emphasize certain notes at certain times, and avoid certain notes at other times, does not change the scale you're using.

Targets have everything to do with improvisation. In fact, it is the point of improvising.

A linear line CAN imply harmony. A linear line is never REQUIRED to imply harmony, and in fact, unless there is an arpeggio within the line, it will NOT imply a harmony. But it will still have a tonal center.

In the absence of an arpeggio, a second line is needed to imply a harmony.

At the most basic level, the second line is also linear (e.g. Bach's Inventions). The harmony will be outlined by tritones created by the coinciding melodies, which will suggest V chords; other chords may then be placed in respect to those V7 outlines. But even then, it's pretty fuzzy - if the lower line is on C and the upper line on A immediately before an implied G7, are we seeing a IV chord in second inversion, or a vi chord in first inversion? We can't know for certain, because there isn't enough information.

The same is true on some level for all non-chord tones played against chords. If the backing harmony is C7 and you play an A, what are you implying? C13, or Am7b9? Either answer may be correct - but one answer, and perhaps even both, WILL be wrong. Context is required to tell which approach is correct. The A may also be a non-harmonic tone employed as a passing note between G and Bb, or as a neighbor tone or an appoggiatura to either G or Bb.. In those situations an extended harmony is NOT implied.

This is basic harmony, stuff any music major would learn in the first 2-3 years of study.

If you are in Dorian over Bm7b5, you are not in Locrian. You're still in Dorian. A chord will not change a scale. Melody and harmony are interdependent - each has its own qualities, and each may support or detract from the other.

As I said before, the point of improvising is to create melody. Targets can be an aid to doing that, but they are not the point of improvising.

In the absence of an arpeggio, a second line is needed to imply a harmony.

No. You can imply harmony with single tones in sequence.

so, what? no word back from Bert Ligon?