Help with first electric guitar choice

Again with the utmost respect, but that ain't helping. Most of the people here who have bought an agile haven't played any of the guitars I mentioned either. I'm sure it's a fine guitar but you should not make blanket statements like that as we simply lack the information to honestly say it's the best. You personally have never ever even seen one so you really can't say anything about it.

If I would have to follow the reviews of people here *every* brand is the best. I've seen Ibanez, Yamaha, Epiphone, Dean, Agile, Squier and God knows have many other brand raves float around here, and I'm sure all recommendations were given with the best intentions and reasons. But since I've never ever seen even *one* single reason why agile is better (does it sound better and if so, in what way, how does it sustain, what is the lowest action you can set it to, how are the electronics shielded, how do the tuners hold up after years of use, how does the nut hold itself day after day?) all you can say is that people who get that guitar like it, one way or the other.

Now what I'm saying might seem harsh and agressive but this is quite important. People with little knowledge come here and ask for advice. Since they don't know anything they will trust us as we are neutral people just wishing to help. As such you have a responsibility to only help if you really know how to do so or else you're just spreading rumors and potentially steering a person towards product that might not fit *their* needs.

So if you recommend a guitar, amp or anything else, always say *why* you do so and what it's good and bad points are. And if you've never ever *seen* the product I think it's best just to keep any kind of guesses away from people. I know you are trying to help and mean nothing but good but this is not a good way to work, IMHO. For anyone involved.

:)

well with respect I don't think ypu post is anyway helpful either, as there is no way anyone can try every guitar ever made and that is where reviews are useful to reduce the range of possibilities to those that seem right!
I have seen plenty of good reviews suggesting Agiles are better than Epi LPs for considerably less money, and the reviews I have seen are by people who have played both and Gibsons too! Yet they are not as well known as Epis for eg so I point people towards them.
Mikespe I think has recommended them more than once. Also I am not suggesting he buys one immediately, just that it is an option worth checking out. Your method would mean a potential buyer would need to spend years tracking down every single guitar, and try various ones of the same model as quality can vary, before buying which is frankly impossible. It would also take just as long to check every review on HC so I attempt to point them to ones I think might be right but ultimately the choice is with the buyer, and by the same token, have you seen or played an Agile? If not how can you say it isn't good?
This looks fairly good to me, but what do I know
http://www.harmony-central.com/Guitar/Data4/Agile/AL2000-1.html

and this is the cheap one!

I continue with my PRS Santana Se/Tremonti SE recommendation. I DO have one and I've played other guitars and I can say that in it's price range ($500) you can get no better. It's indestructable, made by Paul reed Smith, has two double humbuckers, sounds fabulous, easy to play. I honestly don't know wny people buy anything else.

Godin would be another option.
http://www.godinguitars.com/godinproductlistingp.htm

Biker_Jim: please read my post again. I didn't say anything about Agile except that you cannot say it's the best unless you have any reason to do so. And I've read a fair ammount of those HC reviews and none of them actually compare then with any data to the more expensive brands. Just like all Squier reviews say it's as good as a MiM strat, and all MiM reviews say it's better then USA. I'm also *not* saying you should try everything.

So what am I saying? Don't recomment anything unless you have personal experience with it. Don't claim that one product A is better then product B if you haven't tried product B. And definitely don't say product A is the best if you've never ever tried either product A or any other similar product. If Mike things Agiles are the best, let him explain it. It's pointless to say a product you've never seen is the best because a person you've never met thinks so.

If you have a guitar you like, say so. If you think it's better then an Epi std, say so and explain why that is so. If you've played every guitar in the world and think it's the best, say so and explain why. In short: say what you mean but don't say more then you know. That's all, if you know something, say it. If you don't, don't pretend you do. Or at the very least put up a disclaimer saying you're an accoustic player who hasn't have any experience whatsoever about what you're talking about if that's the situation. Be open and fair to those you try to help, the main thing is that they get proper advice, nothing else. And I'm not forcing this opinion to you or anyone else, do with this what you like.

That's very well put Arjen. I can't tell you the number of times, be it bikes or guitars, that somebody compares item A with item B without ever having touched Item A.

I say about the same thing as Arjen, buy the one that speaks to you. Here are a couple of examples.

From an email I sent to David last night:

"By the way, we just went out and bought a grand piano. Susan is due to inherit a massive Steinway, not too soon we hope, so we decided to opt for a bit less expensive Yamaha G2 5'7". People say they (Yamaha) all sound the same, but they're wrong. Susan played 12 of them side by side and you know it's just like guitars. It was easy to narrow it down to two. Then it was a bit of back and forth but eventually you have to take the one that speaks to you. This one was head and shoulders above the rest, great bass, nice balanced tone, clear distinct notes, no abrupt shift in the octaves and apparently really nice action and a good response.

I did have to give Susan a bit of grief. It was so easy to tell the right one when I listened and then she picked the same one by playing. Now she knows how I pick a guitar. It was just the right one."

So, for my money the best grand piano in my price range of the ones I compared was the one we bought. Why would anyone buy an inferior one? ....and by the way that doesn't mean the Yamaha is a better piano than a Steinway or Bosendorfer.

And from a recent post here about which guitar was the best guitar for the money, I replied:

My Collings is a great guitar for the money.
My Mermer is a great guitar for the money.
My Fylde is a great guitar for the money.
My Taylor is a great guitar for the money.
My Washburn is a great guitar for the money.
My Ovation is a great guitar for the money.
My Breedlove is a great guitar for the money.
My Martin is a great guitar for the money.

I wouldn't buy a guitar if I didn't think it was worth every penny of the purchase price.

C'mon now, how many guitars have you sat there and thought "Wow, this one really isn't worth the price. I'll take it."

I'll agree of the guitars you tried the Agile was the best guitar for the money for you. You know what, that is good enough in my book. You can't try them all, you'll get analysis paralysis.

What if I tried one and just didn't like the neck, or maybe the tuners, or the pickups, or the weight? Still a very nice guitar, but just not for me. It isn't my best guitar for the money anymore. What if I like the Washburn in the same price range more? Then the Washburn is my best guitar for the money. I can't tell you how many Martin's I've played but I only have a 1967 D12-20. I can't find a Martin 6 I can justify owning based on price and performance. Does that mean you shouldn't consider them? Nope, just not my cuppa tea.

Sorry for the long post but let's get back on track and assume that all of you are posting with the best possible intent of helping, which I do believe you are.

NIck:

The reason I post about the PRS Santana SE is because these discussions are always about Strat/Gibson and their knockoffs. No one ever considers the PRS guitar maybe because it's not all that well known or because people think PRS is out of their price range. I'm here to let people know about it.

Buy the one that speaks to you ?

Well then asking in the forums is useless.

We are only providing our suggestions to help the person who has 'asked' for help.I may not have played it , but , many have.

Mikespe has played the guitar.And a very senior member and guitarist Ricochet gave him the advice directing him to the Agiles.Now he is extremely happy with that guitar of himself.So what do i have in my mind when i am recommending an Agile Guitar ? Simply that this person gets a good guitar at a reasonable price.What's the guarentee that a person would like an Epi or Gibson LP.I have seen negetive reviews on Gibson LPs and Fender US Strats.Many believe that gibson/epi's quality of LPs are not consistent these days and is not worth the price.

And comes the point of me not trying it.There are reviews , there is mikespe , there is Ricochet , and there are hundreds on the Agile Guitar Forums to support.In this world of lots of manufactureres , it becomes tough to decide on buying guitars.Hence one has to rely on other people's experiences sometimes (especially when starting out).Or he may simply do whatever he wants to and then bear that risk.In the music store the salesman may misguide a beginner.He might get under pressure and even while he is playing the guitar in the store , decision making would be tough.Taking advice beforehand is always a good option.

I could have said - "You know , just go and play various guitars.Then you will know." Of course , he would , but then where am i helping this person.But when i am recommending a guitar eg Agile , then i am saying - "Yes friend , there is a great guitar for your money and you would be happy and satisfied with it.And it is AL2000".I am being specific here.

On these forums , we simply seek to help and get help.We give our suggestions , thoughts , point of views and rest depends on the person who wanted them.He may take them or disregard them.

In every part of the world its not possible to try out guitars.Lots of limitations may apply.And generally , only those come to forums who don't have the sources to obtain that knowledge from a live person.So it becomes our duty to enlighten them.

Ya , we got off-topic.But sometimes its as well to do so.

And i still whole-heartedly recommend Agile AL2000.For more details one MUST goto http://www.agileguitarforum.com or read the reviews.There is NO risk in ordering from Rondomusic.If one does not like the guitar , you can return it for a full refund.No questions asked.

Arjen, almost all the reviews in the link I provided compare the Agiles to Gibsons or Epiphones, so I'm not sure what your point is there? Also, the thread starter was asking for some brands he might like, myself and others provided some to be used as a start point for himher to try ones he might like, and for some reason you say this is wrong and give no alternatives at all, as Rahul says that is not what the poster was looking for at all! Also I mentioned the Agiles as there is no telling when Mike might be around next.

I'm going to bow out of this now and hope the outcome is satisfactory

I'm always weary of reviews that say "Great guitar for the money." That can either go one of two ways either it means, "This is a great guitar!" or it means "You are getting what you pay for."

My first guitar sounded muddy, the pickups died at random, the neck pickup didn't work at all, the middle pickup sounded harsh, the bridge pickup sounded dirty even on clean, the guitar was really heavy(weight wise) and the bridge wouldn't float level so you could barely do a divebomb. Once I bought my Explorer I gave the guitar to my sister for free. So that was a good guitar for the money. And if I worded it just right, I could make that guitar look good in a review. I work in customer service, it's all in how you sell it.

Let's try it now, not sure if I can make that guitar sound good but here goes:

Model: Series A Strat

Be easier if I had still just bought the guitar and was still caught up in the moment of getting a new axe.

Rahul,

Two things:

1. I wouldn't say asking is useless. It's practically useless. Buying a guitar based solely on the recommendation of someone on the internet is a crap shoot at best.

2. I didn't say don't suggest one. Feel free. "Hey, here is one I like. I'm really pleased with it. I think it's a great value. Make sure you include it in your hunt for a guitar." Great. Thanks.

What I did say is best guitar for the money is a specious argument. It isn't relevant and it isn't what was asked. Also what is best to you isn't best to me.

In lumping all Agiles together as having the same feel, quality, workmanship, playability and tone you have made an error that could be a disservice to our reader. Lumping all *insert brand here* together as the group they are superior to is another. You can't play a brand. You can only play a particular guitar of that brand.

Now please I really don't want to argue about this, I want to get back on track.

*****************************************************************

Savate, my advice is to take the brands suggested in this thread as a starting point and go and play what you can. It's worth an hours drive to find a store that has some.

So..you've already seen the Epi. I own the Wildkat which is an archtop and I haven't had any quality issues with it.

I've played all of these. You might try some:

Pearl the Kat has a great suggestion with the PRS SE. I really like this guitar.
Washburn had an LP clone I liked called the CT2 and now the WI64. I might be mistaken but didn't Musenfreund get one?
Yamaha had the AES240 and I like just about any of their guitars higher than the pacifica line.

....and I've heard somewhere that you really should consider the Agiles. :lol:

YMMV

I agree with both Arjen and Nick. The problem with guitars is that they are very subjective beasts - for example, I don't like PRS SEs. The necks on the couple of SEs that I've played were like 2x4s. I'm not saying that it's a bad guitar (I've only had dirct experience of 2), it's just not the one for me.
Worse still, it's quite rare to get two examples of the same guitar that feel exactly the same, just like Nick's piano example. You should do the guitar and yourself justice and try a few out - even brands that are not mentioned here.

There's a company called OLP, that makes a budget line of Music Man guitars that are nice, Cort makes a couple of nice electrics, such as the Matt Guitar Murphy signature model. I have a very nice Burns Marquee and a Washburn ES335 clone, both of which are excellent guitars. Yamaha makes some nice guitars, such as the Pacifica, the higher end models are fitted with genuine Seymour-Duncan pickups. Whilst they're not LPs, they're very good guitars and may change your mind about buying an LP.
I'm not saying that they are better (or worse) than other brands, because that has to be your decision and only you will know if you made the right one or not.

Reviews tend to be a little one sided, as far as I'm concerned, just like phone-ins - the people who are not really bothered won't bother to phone in, even though they may represent 80% of those who come into question. Going to the Agile forum and expecting a lot of negative reviews is unreasonable (even if they are warranted, which is probably not the case) - people who hate something don't join the fan club, do they?

Buying online is a bit of a lottery, you can't try before you buy and you may well get a lemon. On the other hand, you may be lucky - I've bought 3 guitars via ebay and am very happy with them all.
Don't go for the first guitar you see. Use the search function to find similar guitars and how much they sold for. If you see a guitar that takes your fancy, look very carefully at it and the description - look for things he's NOT saying (like no mention of scratches or dents). Email the seller to get that missing info and ask for the serial number, if it's not already in the auction. Contact with a seller will often show up a dodgy one, by the tone of his replies (if you get one. If not, he's not worth buying from). Look at the seller's feedback, see if he's bought or sold guitars recently and what the buyer/seller thought of the deal.
One more word of warning - DO NOT BUY ANY GUITAR FROM A SELLER IN CHINA, particularly not Gibson or Epiphone. They are all fakes.

Not to harp on this, but I really don't think you can recommend something that you've never tried. If you've tried a specific guitar then I think you can at least say "this guitar was a great fit for me. I think it is really nice guitar." But I don't think you can say that it is a great guitar if you've never even played it! Maybe you can say that you know people who love that guitar, and have read great reviews on it, but you can't say it is a great guitar since you have no experience with it.

Anyway... now that we've officially frightened off the original poster away from the forums forever...

Jay Turser has some Les Paulish guitars.

http://www.jayturser.com/jt_electric3.htm

If they are anything like my Jay Turser Explorer then they are good. Bright cleans, good distortion, though that would probably depend on where the distortion is coming from. The sound is a bit trebly but other than that, good guitars.

Great, and I want the SG on the bottom of the page. Stupid GAS.

I've been noodling around on my acoustic for a while now (still like
playing acoustic folk, bluegrass, etc) but I've gotten the "rock and
metal" bug again recently.

I'm really enamored with the Les Paul design even though the "sound"
I really enjoy is coming out of Strat players. I just feel the Les
Paul shape and "feel" are more to my liking.

I'm thinking of the Epiphone Les Paul (maybe) though I'd love
suggestions from more experienced players. I'm going to try and see
if the local music store haunts will let me try out a few different
models (do they normally let you plug in and test drive?)

My real ignorance is in the amps/electronics area. Mostly I've been
learning from reading ads in guitar magazines (gulp!)

I don't want to have a thousand pedals and gadgets strung out in a
series, so what would be a good basic amp/speaker/effects set up for
a guy on a budget playing in his room for an audience of (my) twin 18
month-old boys?

Remember, I'm dumber than a box of hair when it comes to gadgetry, so
go slow and easy..... :-)

Go to the store and play several guitars. don't look at what brand they are. just play with them. The one that feels and sounds good to you is the one you want. it may be an off brand. don't go buy some expensive guitar just because the people you admire in music play them. the brand WILL NOT make you sound any better.

I've known people who went out and bought 600 to a 1000 dollar guitars only to find they still suck and then they give up on guitar.

As far as amps are concerned, same thing applies. you may find that you like the sound of a Crate amp better than a Marshall.

Good luck!