how do you sing and play at same time?

I was talking with my guitar teacher and discussing the current funk my playing is in. I seem to be stuck on a plateau and things arent coming together the way I want them to.

So teach says..."Dave, you need to start singing"

Dave says..."I cant sing"

Teach says..."I dont care! Sing!"

All kidding aside since I have started singing along with my guitar playing things seem to be clicking better. Its takes some concentration but I am getting through it.

I started out with just a strum on the first beat of the chord change and then as I got more comfortable expanded on the strumming until I built up to a normal strum pattern.

<...>hey Bob, you must have a tricky job, though, looking at your avatar - how do you play sax and sing at the same time? Now THAT'S got to be tough!

:D :D :D

Vic

It's easy, here, I'll give you and example and sing Smoke On The Water while playing the sax. Here we go, "mmmmf mmmf mmmf mmmf mmmf mmf mmff mmmf mmmf mmmf" :D

But seriously, in my duo I'm currently playing sax, flute, wind synth, guitar, percussion controller and sometimes keyboards. I can do a Junior Walker thing and answer my singing with my sax, and I can vocalize when playing the sax which creates something similar to a fuzz tone, but not at the same time. But that doesn't stop people from coming up while the sax is in my mouth and asking me a question and expecting me to answer it while I'm playing. Go figure.

Notes

When I was young, I didn't sing. But I found it very difficult to find good singing musicians.

Unfortunately for me at the time, the singer IS the most important musician in the band. It's what the audience relates to.

At the time I was playing mostly sax but doubling on rhythm guitar, bass, and keyboard parts (learned song by song from the other musicians in the band) when there was no sax part in the song. I thought all of these instruments should be more important than the singer, or at least as important, but I knew I was only trying to fool myself.

So I learned how to sing. It took years of practice. Fortunately with a background playing a wind instrument, I already knew the proper way to breathe to provide breath support. When you breathe in, your abdomen expands and when you breathe out, it contracts. Your rib cage should not expand and contract.

Then it was a matter of simply practicing, taking tips from singers who had real training, buying books on the subject, and practicing some more until my voice developed. I'll never be a Mark Murphy, Elvis Presley, or Frank Sinatra but I've become a very decent and more than adequate singer. It took a lot of work, but so did the guitar, sax, bass, and other instruments.

If this was all instant gratification, anyone would be able to do it. I'm glad it takes so much work, because people wouldn't pay me to have this much fun if they could do it themselves.

Insights and incites by Notes

Great post Bob! :)

That's one of the best descriptions that I've seen about the importance of understanding what the roles are in a band. Every music student would do well to read it.

I'm currently trying to put a song together for Vic's SSG assignment. I got the lyrics down on day 1, but what's holding me up is my lack of skills in singing, and also in playing. It's not much good being able to hear it in your head if you can't get it to come out of your mouth, or through your fingers. Plus, the better you get at singing the better informed your overall musical creativity can be too.

I need to double the work I'm doing on playing, and treble the time I'm spending on singing..... :)

Cheers,

Chris

I have noticed, since trying to sing (and along with anything, sax lines on a record, guitar riffs, vocal lines in songs, even beatboxing when hip hop is on), my improvising has become more interesting and vocal.

And notes has just earned himself a place in my sig.

<...>And notes has just earned himself a place in my sig.

Wow! Thanks! I'm flattered!

Notes

I tried to sing once. Remember when Marty McFly was playing at the school dance and he started to fade away because George wasn't going after <can't remember his mom's name>? That is what I sounded like when I tried to sing a song that I was quite capable of strumming through the chords without thinking normally.

I would say, on top of what has already been said, 'Learn both parts individually,' Also learn what connects the two. This is a major point. Some songs are easy to learn, to play guitar and sing at the same time. Some, on the other hand, are feakin' horrible. At first, like everyone else said, try learning a song on guitar good enough (preferably a simple song so you get there faster), then try talking along with it, and presenting your thoughts... Get one part of the equation so perfect, so simple, that you can do it with your eyes closed and your ears shut off. Once you're there, it's really easy to add in another element.

One thing I will say, though, is talking while I'm playing guitar is still hard (had been playing for 15ish years)... I can't really present my thoughts, my opinions, while I'm concentrating on a guitar line. That said, my biggest opinion is this:

You gotta figure out the matching points between both things... As in, you gotta figure out where the vocals line up with the guitars. Some songs are VERY easy to catch on to, to understand, to learn guitar, and sing along with your own guitars. Others, as great a song as they are, are out of wack when it comes to lining up the singing to the guitars.. Some totally change what you'd imagine a band doing. That said, the trick of it all is to find those "common grounds," those little links between the guitars and vocals, and hit on them. Concentrate on them. If the singer sings a certain word, or a certain phrase over a certain part of guitar (and you know the guitar), it'll come that much easier. The trick is to realize these little connections; When the singing matches up with the guitar, and then branch off from them. Once you get this little, 'frame work' done, it all comes a little easier, and a little more naturally. That's my two cents, anyway.

Good points, but depending on the music played, it is not always about finding common grounds, often the guitar and the voice have to contrast with each other. Again, that is genre dependent so take this with that understanding.

It's a bit like playing piano, where the left hand might not be doing what the right hand is doing, it might be either complementing it or contrasting it. Likewise the hands on the guitar may be either complementing or contrasting with the vocals.

Either way, it helps to learn one until it can be done more in the "automatic" mode and then learn the other.

For me muscle memory is good, so if it is difficult, I always learn the hands first and add the voice later.

But I've been doing this for so many years now, that on the majority of songs I can learn them both at the same time now. Keep at it, you'll get there.

Notes

FYI: The current issue of Acoustic Guitar magazine has an article about Singing and Playing at the same time.

Probably not a lot of info that has not been covered in this discussion, or on the misc articles on GuitarNoise... but still might be worth a look.

Besides, it is a great magazine anyway... and buying the current issue is worth it just to get into the tons of lesssons and articles on their web site)

http://acousticguitar.com/issues/PastIssues/toc.aspx?IssueID=1115

(David Hodge is (was?) a regular contributor for lessons in this magazine)