Lead Patterns VS Box Shapes

Move those major pentatonic patterns three frets toward the bridge and you do indeed have the notes for the minor pentatonic in the same key.

Your a life saver thanks... :D

You're welcome.

Not pointing out anything that Ricochet didn't show, but I think visuals always help understanding.

The Major Pentatonic and the Relative Minor Pentatonic for the same key have the same exact notes, only your starting Root note is different.


A Minor Pentatonic/ C Major Pentatonic 1st postion
e-------------------------------5--8-
b-------------------------5--8-------
g-------------------5--7-------------
d-------------5--7-------------------
a-------5--7-------------------------
e-5--8-------------------------------

A Minor Pentatonic/ C Major Pentatonic 5th postion
e-------------------------------3--5-
b-------------------------3--5-------
g-------------------2--5-------------
d-------------2--5-------------------
a-------3--5-------------------------
e-3--5-------------------------------


These are simple "box" shape scales. You can play each one without having to move your fretting hand up or down the fingerboard. But some players like to move through the various boxes. One reason some do this is simply because it is very easy, you never have to use your pinky. But also, moving through the boxes this way sounds more fluid. Here is a very common run that starts in the 5th box position, moves to the 1st, and then 2nd box position. The notes are exactly the same, but you are moving up the neck, shifting your hand position.


Common run through these 3 postions
e--------------------------------------8--10-
b-------------------------------8--10--------
g---------------------5--7/--9---------------
d---------------5--7-------------------------
a-------3--5/-7------------------------------
e-3--5---------------------------------------

Once your learn the 5 box positions for the Pentatonic Scales, practice to learn to move through them one to another like this example.

Wes,

That visual really helped. Thanks for taking the time to post it.

Cheers,
Landog

Not pointing out anything that Ricochet didn't show, but I think visuals always help understanding.

The Major Pentatonic and the Relative Minor Pentatonic for the same key have the same exact notes, only your starting Root note is different.


A Minor Pentatonic/ C Major Pentatonic 1st postion
e-------------------------------5--8-
b-------------------------5--8-------
g-------------------5--7-------------
d-------------5--7-------------------
a-------5--7-------------------------
e-5--8-------------------------------

A Minor Pentatonic/ C Major Pentatonic 5th postion
e-------------------------------3--5-
b-------------------------3--5-------
g-------------------2--5-------------
d-------------2--5-------------------
a-------3--5-------------------------
e-3--5-------------------------------


These are simple "box" shape scales. You can play each one without having to move your fretting hand up or down the fingerboard. But some players like to move through the various boxes. One reason some do this is simply because it is very easy, you never have to use your pinky. But also, moving through the boxes this way sounds more fluid. Here is a very common run that starts in the 5th box position, moves to the 1st, and then 2nd box position. The notes are exactly the same, but you are moving up the neck, shifting your hand position.


Common run through these 3 postions
e--------------------------------------8--10-
b-------------------------------8--10--------
g---------------------5--7/--9---------------
d---------------5--7-------------------------
a-------3--5/-7------------------------------
e-3--5---------------------------------------

Once your learn the 5 box positions for the Pentatonic Scales, practice to learn to move through them one to another like this example.

hi wes

just a quick question: if i look your first figure, if i'll start at 6th string 5th fret I'll play the Am pentatonic, so have I to start ath G string, fifth fret to play the C major scale?

Matteo

Matteo

The Am Pentatonic has 5 notes, A C, D, E, and G

The C Major Pentatonic has 5 notes, C, D, E, G, and A

They are the same exact notes, the only difference is your starting point.

You do not have to start a phrase from any scale with the root note at all, you can start or finish with any note you choose. But it is very common to start or end a phrase with the root note.

So, if you are playing over a progression in the key of C, and you wish to use the C Major Pentatonic, you can start your solo with a C note, but only if you want to. If you start every phrase you play with the root note you will start to sound a little mechanical though.

Scales are normally written out starting at the root and ending on the root an octave higher. This is just to show you the notes in the scale. How you play them is up to you. It is like the alphabet, we always say the alphabet starting with the letter A and ending with the letter Z. But that is just to help us know and remember all the letters. We do not use the alphabet that way at all, we spell words in many various orders. A music scale is exactly the same, you can play the notes in any order you wish to create the melody you hear in your mind. :D

But to answer your question, you could start on any C shown, the 3rd fret on the A string, the 8th fret on the high E (or bass E) string, the 5th fret on the G string, any C you wish to start with.

The only way you could tell these scales apart would be the chord you are playing over. If you play this scale consisting of A, C, D, E, and G over an Am chord it will sound dark and minor. If you play the same exact notes over a C Major chord it will sound happy and major.

And here is why.... the 3rd tone. The third tone determines whether a chord is Major or Minor. When you play this scale over an Am, you are playing the flatted (or minor) 3rd C, this gives a sad or melancholy sound. Playing this scale over a C chord, you play the E note which is the major 3rd of C and so will sound happy or major.

Hope that didn't cause confusion. The scales have the same exact notes.

Often a player will play the A Minor Pentatonic over an A Major chord. The flatted 3rd C will give the solo a sad sound, this is why it's called the Blues.

You can play the major or minor pentatonic over a major chord. But you can only play the minor pentatonic over a minor chord.

Well now I'm confused :oops: I been doin those things but I didn't realize they were called boxes. Been callin em scale forms.

The "box" name simply comes from the fact that they often form (sort of) parellel rows across the fretboard:

Pentatonic minor fingering (A pent minor if played in 5th position)

--|--R--|-----|-----|-b3--|-----|
--|--5--|-----|-----|-b7--|-----|
--|-b3--|-----|--4--|-----|-----|
--|-b7--|-----|--R--|-----|-----|
--|--4--|-----|--5--|-----|-----|
--|--R--|-----|-----|-b3--|-----|

Matteo

The Am Pentatonic has 5 notes, A C, D, E, and G

The C Major Pentatonic has 5 notes, C, D, E, G, and A

They are the same exact notes, the only difference is your starting point.

You do not have to start a phrase from any scale with the root note at all, you can start or finish with any note you choose. But it is very common to start or end a phrase with the root note.

So, if you are playing over a progression in the key of C, and you wish to use the C Major Pentatonic, you can start your solo with a C note, but only if you want to. If you start every phrase you play with the root note you will start to sound a little mechanical though.

Scales are normally written out starting at the root and ending on the root an octave higher. This is just to show you the notes in the scale. How you play them is up to you. It is like the alphabet, we always say the alphabet starting with the letter A and ending with the letter Z. But that is just to help us know and remember all the letters. We do not use the alphabet that way at all, we spell words in many various orders. A music scale is exactly the same, you can play the notes in any order you wish to create the melody you hear in your mind. :D

But to answer your question, you could start on any C shown, the 3rd fret on the A string, the 8th fret on the high E (or bass E) string, the 5th fret on the G string, any C you wish to start with.

The only way you could tell these scales apart would be the chord you are playing over. If you play this scale consisting of A, C, D, E, and G over an Am chord it will sound dark and minor. If you play the same exact notes over a C Major chord it will sound happy and major.

And here is why.... the 3rd tone. The third tone determines whether a chord is Major or Minor. When you play this scale over an Am, you are playing the flatted (or minor) 3rd C, this gives a sad or melancholy sound. Playing this scale over a C chord, you play the E note which is the major 3rd of C and so will sound happy or major.

Hope that didn't cause confusion. The scales have the same exact notes.

Often a player will play the A Minor Pentatonic over an A Major chord. The flatted 3rd C will give the solo a sad sound, this is why it's called the Blues.

You can play the major or minor pentatonic over a major chord. But you can only play the minor pentatonic over a minor chord.

hi wes

thanks a lot

you're as always extremly enlightning with your kind explanations. Just a small additional question: when you say play the scale over a C chord do you mean to play a solo based on the pentatonic scale while the rhyhthm guitar is playing a C chord?

Matteo

i asked this question on another tread how do you know what position ,box to play like i thought while playing in position 1 you would be on the 1st fret, then 2nd fret for 2nd position ect.like how does one figure out where the postions are and also does this all change in different scales aswell?

Frank,

The pattern Helgi showed a couple possts ago is normally considered the first position of the minor pent scale. Obviously for different keys that box pattern will be at different parts of the fretboard. If it was the Am pent then the root would be the A at the 5th fret of the 6th string. If it was Bm then move the root up to the 7th fret and that is the 1st position of the Bm pent, and so on for all keys.

Position 2 of the minor pent starts on the second note of position 1. Position 3 starts on the second not of position 2 and so on. After position 5 you are back to 1 again.

Frank,

The pattern Helgi showed a couple possts ago is normally considered the first position of the minor pent scale. Obviously for different keys that box pattern will be at different parts of the fretboard. If it was the Am pent then the root would be the A at the 5th fret of the 6th string. If it was Bm then move the root up to the 7th fret and that is the 1st position of the Bm pent, and so on for all keys.

Position 2 of the minor pent starts on the second note of position 1. Position 3 starts on the second not of position 2 and so on. After position 5 you are back to 1 again.
still confused sorry i was refering to post by west inman :?

frank,

Helgi and Wes are talking about the same thing. the patterns overlap each other and the five patterns cover the fretboard. The are the same five patterns for every key the are just moved to a different root note.