Learn to play jazz without a teacher?

Perhaps the best jazz musician of all time was Charlie Parker - who was self taught. So it can be done.

Parker shared his secret in a radio interview: he practiced 11-15 hours a day, everyday, for about 4 years.

All I know about Jazz can be written on the head of a pin. However, there are some Jazzy chords that I like to noodle with. Mainly a lot of movable 7th and 9th chords. Perhaps it's kind of the mindless equivalent to whipping through some 12-barre in the Blues world?

I think my one-trick Jazz pony uses a bit of a different strum too. Kind of a firm, quick, snappy strum.....maybe?

Perhaps the best jazz musician of all time was Charlie Parker - who was self taught. So it can be done.

Parker shared his secret in a radio interview: he practiced 11-15 hours a day, everyday, for about 4 years.

And I'm pretty sure Wes Montgomery was self-taught also, and he didn't play jazz too badly (especially considering he couldn't read music either).

As for books...hmm...I don't know any of the top off my head, but you do want to familiarise yourself with the ii-V7-I chord sequence as it's a jazz standard in much the same way as a 12-bar is to the blues (in G it is Am-D7-G, in E it is Fsharpmin-B7-E, and so on). You might want to check out the books Joe Pass has done on chords...I seem to recall an online article where he simplified extended chords by categorising all of them as being either major, minor, or dominant, so you can substitute chords more easily (I think it's a simplified version of his Guitar Chords book method).

Sorry I'm not more help on this one. Jazz is something I aspire to, it's yet to be something I understand fully (putting a guitar in my hands drains what little knowledge I do have).

Could it be done without the help and guidance of a teacher? Are there enough good books for self-taught?

I once asked a guy that was getting me out of a "rock 'n roll rut" almost the same question. In a few minutes he drew up a fingering chart for "the only scale you'll ever need to know": namely, the guitar neck with EVERY fret having a circle on it. :lol:

The point wasn't lost on me, Nuno... :wink:

Cat

...Parker shared his secret in a radio interview: he practiced 11-15 hours a day, everyday, for about 4 years.

When I read this about guitarists (or even think about just about any successful professional guitarist), I wonder how they avoid/avoided RSI, Carpel Tunnel etc.

...Parker shared his secret in a radio interview: he practiced 11-15 hours a day, everyday, for about 4 years.

When I read this about guitarists (or even think about just about any successful professional guitarist), I wonder how they avoid/avoided RSI, Carpel Tunnel etc.

I think that the trick is to exaggerate how much work you put in... :wink:

I'm dead sure that they all spent a very solid chunk of time playing and experimenting, but I also think that a 24hr spy camera would also reveal a healthy dose of listening to other players, drinking, pondering, wooing, shooting the breeze with like minded mates, and so on. Nothing wrong with a bit of creative re-writing of history when the press call round though. Makes a better story....

Nuno,

My guess is that jazz is as much about style and attitude as it is about techniques. As you say, there are quite a range of jazz genres, and they all grew out of somebody deciding that they fancied swinging it a bit differently from the others. I'd be inclined to get a bit of an overview of some of the technical issues that you talked about (i.e. favoured chords and general structural stuff), do some more careful listening, and then wing it my own way. I'd be trying to tap into the underlying feel rather than copy all the detail.

Good luck - sounds like a lot of fun.

Cheers,

Chris

In the case of Parker, I tend to believe the number of hours. He was a kid thrown out of his school band for not being good enough... four years later he's world class, able to play any tune in any key (and on sax, some keys are MUCH harder than others).

In the case of Montgomery, I think the exaggeration is that he couldn't read music. He showed up for band rehearsals with charts of tunes he'd written, and no less a musician than Pat Metheney has analyzed tapes of Wes leading rehearsals in the mid 60s and concluded there's no way he couldn't read - because of the way he communicated using keys and specific note names to walk people through the arrangements. Is it possible he had deep theory knowledge, incredibly big ears... and somebody who wasn't in his band that transcribed all his charts for him?

When people who worked with Wes say he couldn't read, I think it's much more likely they mean he couldn't sight read - most jazz musicians are pretty comfortable playing right off the stand, and that's something Wes wasn't able to do.

I stand corrected then. Apologies, but everywhere I've read this it always refers to not being able to read music generally, which I'll confess did strike me as a little odd (okay, maybe when he started out, but throughout his career he never picked up some knowledge? hmm...). Goes to show it's worth checking your sources are accurate.

Could it be done without the help and guidance of a teacher? Are there enough good books for self-taught

I like the National Guitar Workshop book by Jody Fisher Beginning Jazz Guitar. I think it's a well laid out progression (there are 3 more books after this - Intermediate, Advanced - Chord/Melody, and Advanced - Improv) that clearly explains everything.

I'll have to say that I haven't finished it yet - I put it aside for now to focus on the blues for a while. I will probably put it back into my practice routine sometime next year.

Thank you very much for your advices and comments. The Jodie Fisher and Joe Pass seems pretty good starting points for playing jazz guitar. Perhaps it is not the best forum but any tip for jazz bass?

I already play 7th and 9th chords. And also 6th, 13th and 11th chords that also are usually used. I'll try to used them in ii-V7-I progressions. I used to practice that progression but it needs more practice. I guess scales are also important, thus it is a good way to learn the fretboard.

Chris, I completely agree with you. Probably I can start with some styles or by modifying/adapting some easy songs/melodies to that jazzy style. As you know, I always try to have fun and, yeah, this sounds very fun!

And concerning the Carpel Tunnel affair: Don't worry, I can not dedicate 15 hours a day to play! :wink:

Could it be done without the help and guidance of a teacher? Are there enough good books for self-taught

I like the National Guitar Workshop book by Jody Fisher Beginning Jazz Guitar. I think it's a well laid out progression (there are 3 more books after this - Intermediate, Advanced - Chord/Melody, and Advanced - Improv) that clearly explains everything.

I'll have to say that I haven't finished it yet - I put it aside for now to focus on the blues for a while. I will probably put it back into my practice routine sometime next year.

I have that dvd and it's pretty good. It's gotten me to a lot of different chords and got me into soloing in the major scales instead of the pentatonic scale. It really has opened up a new world and makes you think of phrasings of your solos.

Thanks! :D

I purchased a couple of books this week. Currently I am more interested on bass so I've started with two jazz bass books. One is a book on walking bass lines by Ed Friedland. I already have a book of Mr Friedland and I liked it. The other is "The Jazz Bass Book". It is not a instruction book exactly. It has some comments on technique, some notes on history, bass players biographies, recommendations for auditions, etc.

Nuno! I remember the day you purchased the bass! I am so happy to see that you are playing it and playing it well! Alas, I was not able to follow in your footsteps. I did seriously think about it (at the time) but life got in the way. :(
I'm listening to Joe Pass (Virtuoso #2) as I'm reading this thread. Great stuff!

Nothing to offer in terms of a suggestion but I can say that you are an inspiration by taking up the bass and learning jazz my friend!

How did Lennon say? Life is what happen while you make other plans? Something like that, isn't? Well, a good friend of mine says: all change in five minutes! Perhaps you will playing your bass in your club very soon! :D

Thank you very much for the comment Matt!