Learning scales

Have you tried Joe's (Forrok_Star) Scales site? http://www.guitarnoise.us/scales/Scales.htm

scales help with fingering, speed and also help you to learn the notes on the fret board. They are use to make up riffs solos,fills,ect. You find out what key you want to play in and the use scales in that key. from the scale you can work out some of the shords that go with the scale/key. To find out how to do this look at the theory with out tears lesson in the begineers section. Good luck

I'm a newb, but thought I'd add my thoughts. Much of this is taken from having played violin for years, though I've found it true in my beginnings with guitar.

Scales are good for warm-up. Something to play to warm my sluggish-when-cold fingers.

They help educate your ear. When you play the scales from a certain key, your ear learns what notes are supposed to be in that key. That way, when you're working something out, your ear is the best guide for what's right, and what's not.

They build muscle memory. If you know the scale for a given key, your fingers know where to go. It's an extension of the previous comment. You spend less time thinking about playing, and more time playing. That helps with jamming and improvising. Your fingers (already) know where the notes are, so you just play them as you hear them.

I know that countless hours of playing various scales on the violin gave me the armament to be an awesome sight reader. Side note: It's also negatively affected my ability to play the guitar; my fingers seem hard-wired to respond as if they were still using a violin. Bad results when one considers 4 vs 6 strings, frets, and all that other mumbo-jumbo. :D

I hope that made some sense.

My two cents:

Scales- Benifits: develop technique and more awareness of keys and fretboard, Downfalls: some people tend to think that knowing scales is knowing how to improvise and write songs and solos, which is false.

So in my opinion, I would know your scales, but don't overdo it. I'd rather see someone know how to play music well then know every scale and be technically amazing but be a boring performer and writer.

When I first started playing about 3 months back, I did to finger exercises, they weren't scales though.

So they are like a guide then? But don't have to follow them. I looked at Smells Like Teen Spirit which is in Ab Major, in the tab anyway. But a couple times when A is played, it has that natural sign that cancels out the flat infront of it. So I would assume that whoever transcribed the tab, was more worried about what was easiest for the fingers.

But in a nutshell: scales help but don't necessarily lead to good music.

Follow up question on knowing notes/scales: I do know where some notes are on the fret board. I actually know more pitches than I do their names but, have had to relearn them since I put my guitar in Drop C. Do these patterns work in alternate tunings?

What do you mean by pattern?
W,W,H,W,W,W,H is a pattern for major scales, patterns like that will work in any tuning.(you just have to be aware of where the notes are)
If you are relying on a fingering pattern like string 6 fingers 2,4,string 5 fingers 1,2,4 (called box patterns) no they will not work in alternate tuning unless all strings are tuned up or down the same amount and you are aware of where to start for a given key.

Without getting too complicated, a scale has two patterns.
The first pattern is in the context of musical theory. Every major scale follows the same pattern of intervals, namely Wholetone, Wholetone, Halftone, Wholetone, Wholetone, Wholetone, Halftone. Another way to look at it is two groups of W, W, H separated by a wholetone. This sort of pattern remains constant and is unaffected by instrument or tuning.
The second type of pattern is the pattern of a scale as it is found on the fretboard. This is dependent upon tuning as to how it appears. Let's take something simple, in standard tuning (Aminor pentatonic):
E|-5--8
B|-5--8
G|-5-7
D|-5-7
A|-5-7
E|-5--8

Now, let's change to dropped D tuning (which only changes the low E one note lower to D)
E|-5--8
B|-5--8
G|-5-7
D|-5-7
A|-5-7
D|-7--10
Although the notes haven't changed, the fretboard pattern has, because the tuning has.

Music theory is the grammar of music - it is not a set of unbreakable laws, but rather a set of observations of what sounds good and what doesn't. Basically, if it sounds good, it's OK.

I used to wonder the same thing, Ok so I know a Pent Scale forward and backwards.. so what?

----------------------------------5--8---
---------------------------5--8----------
--------------------5--7-----------------
---------------5--7----------------------
--------5--7-----------------------------
--5--8-----------------------------------

My interpretation and it could very well be wrong about scales are this:

Using the "Coloring" analogy. Lets Paint a Blue and Green Picture.

There are more than just the two colors here, there are all shades of Blue and Green and even a bit of a mix of the two colors.

So an A rooted Pent scale would be the BLUE Colors and second pattern of the scale Starting with C on the (6th sting 8th Fret) would be the Green Colors.

Now some songs may only be Blue and other may only be Green, yet others may be a mix of the two together or another may only be the blended colors and never a pure blue or green.

By knowing the Major/Minor Pentatonic Scales in any key (the first note used), I'd know if I'm going to use Dark Blues or Light Blues, if you will.

I'm starting to figure this out by first looking at LedZepp Black Dog and the pattern of notes in that first riff. Its a defined BOX if you will, yes it goes out of the box for a note or two or three, but all in all the 20-30 notes played are still in the same relative BOX (BLUE TONES) if you will. Now parts of the chorus or bridge of this song will definately go into the Green colors, but it comes right back to the Blue colors.

Then I look at other songs and I start to see the majority of notes are in a given "SCALE". What I've gleened, If I know my scales and all the notes in them by heart, then I should be able to play most any song in any key.

Now, more and more with out realizing when I'm noodling around with some single note runs and improvising, I'm in fact messing around with the note of some scale, some where, weither its Mixolydian, Pentantonic, Maximillian, I'm not sure of yet, but I know its a scale, cuz I can hear the "COLOR".

Anyhoo, I've been playing ONE YEAR this month, I still don't completely undertand it, but I'm gonna keep reading, keep playing, keep seeking to undertand instead of being understood.

Anyhoo, I've been playing ONE YEAR this month, I still don't completely undertand it, but I'm gonna keep reading, keep playing, keep seeking to undertand instead of being understood.

I've been playing for 8 years and feel the same :lol:

I feel that way about everything, and not just learning guitar. I checked tons of sites, online books and books about scales. I'd have to say most of them just kinda threw the patterns at me and said "Here play these, they'll will help you." But never bothered explaining how they would help.

But I think you all explained scales and why they are used. I don't quite understand why songs are in keys. But I don't think any amount of explaining would make me understand that.

Thanks for your help everyone. During my search, I learned there are rock and metal scales, so it might be a good idea for me to learn a few of those.

But I think you all explained scales and why they are used. I don't quite understand why songs are in keys. But I don't think any amount of explaining would make me understand that.

I think keys were to accommodate the singers range. Other reasons could be due to ease of playing certain chords.

But I think you all explained scales and why they are used. I don't quite understand why songs are in keys. But I don't think any amount of explaining would make me understand that.
Some explainations are hard to follow because the author explains on a level that you just haven't gotten to so it sounds like a foreign language.
Why are songs written in certain keys? Thats easy and I will explain it in laymens terms.
Certain notes sound good together and others don't. Keys tell you what notes to use in that song. It doesn't have to be any more complicated than that and that answers the question :D

I do understand that. I'm just confused of why they exist to begin with. I mean, a key tells you what notes to use, but you don't have to use just those notes. So why have the key? I guess its back to the color thing, you can paint it blue but if you want to sneak in a little bit of green and it works, why not do it?

That is exactly why, If you didn't have anything telling you it was suppose to be blue to begin with and you could just throw any color in there you would have a nasty looking mess, right?
Keys give you the base color and if you add to many other colors it becomes a mess.