Metronome Practicing - Makes me feel bad

Well, I can puzzle out tabs right now but one thing I'm not close to being able to do is to translate that 4/4 or 3/4 into sense that I can use without actually hearing the song. And everytime I do get the beat of a song, I do have to listen to it. I'm at the beginning of this process and sometimes the elements of the process are beyond me. Thanks for the perspective. :-)

Tabs don't give you any timing info- so you are always going to need to hear the song or have standard notation as well. Standard notation tells you everything you really need to know (but not the fingering).

Dude man. I'm looking at my latest issue of 'Play Guitar', the Spring Issue, with tabs for John Lennon's Imagine, Green Day's Wake Me Up When September Ends, Ben E. King's Stand By Me and Black Crowes Hard To Handle. Every one of them gives me a lot of information. Here Imagine says it's 4/4, shows a picking pattern, shows the chords used and runs the chords over the words very simply. The Green Day song is more complicated but it also gives me the 4/4 timing on the tab. I know tabs aren't standardized but the tab books I pay for and in the mags have timing instruction. Of course I do have to hear the song more than once to relate all the information I'm able to receive from the tab/notations in front of me but to me it's like being able to read english just halfway. Well, actually it's like looking at german for me, I can get some of the words, I can sometimes get the gist of what I'm reading but I'm not actually reading it clearly. Don't want to be that way with music. :-)

oddly double posted. sorry

If you use a "playable tab", like power tab, it will give you pretty much all the information you get from standard notation. (Power tab will show you both views, actually).

And usually, whenever the topic of timing comes up, I like to point to this lesson:
Keeping Time by Noteboat aka Tom Serb.

If you use a "playable tab", like power tab, it will give you pretty much all the information you get from standard notation. (Power tab will show you both views, actually).

And usually, whenever the topic of timing comes up, I like to point to this lesson:
Keeping Time by Noteboat aka Tom Serb.

Thank you. After writing out my frustrations yesterday I remembered to look through Guitar Noise for some answers and found the very article you mentioned. I did buy Guitar Pro 5 and have that as a reference. Every mag and book I think might be of some help finds its way to me as well. Thanks kindly Vink.

Oh, come on. If so many people, including many great players, rave about practicing with a metronome, then isn't it just barely possible that they're onto something and you're the misguided one? It just seems robotic because you're thinking about how you must play on each click and you must make each note absolutely, mathematically correct. That's not unmusical, that's how music is played. When you work with a metronome you're pushing through that feeling to make playing in the pocket natural and unmechanical, but still precise. The correct thing to focus on is the groove. When you're naturally in perfect time with the metronome you're not mechanical anymore: you're in the pocket, as bassists would say. Metronomes aren't something to follow, but something to play with. Because without a metronome's steady click, how can you know whether you're off or on? You (in the general sense) might be good enough to stay with other musicians, but if you can't play with a metronome then you're probably not as good as you thought. Metronomes are so valuable because they, unlike other musicians or a drum machine, leave you no room at all to hide. Without one you can learn to play okay, but if you want your rhythm to be right on, there's only one tool for the job.

The first commercial metronome was made in 1816. There was plenty of music written and performed before metronomes existed which I'm sure sounded fine. So I maintain that metronomes are wholly unnecessary for the creation of good music. The internal human sense of rhythm is perfectly adequate for satisfying the human listener's ear. Nobody needs to be "as good as the metronome".

The only argument you can make for the metronome is that it can be a learning aid, useful for making high-level (i.e. "perfectly mathematical") musical instrument skills more accessible to people who lack a natural sense of rhythm or who simply lack confidence in their sense of rhythm. The technical guitar players all like their metronomes because they offer a precise "measurement" of skill or progress, and therefore an instant structured practise model. The time they spend doing their exercises with the metronome is what makes them good players, but I say that a non-metronome player who practised for the same amount of time would be just as good a player.

Personally I find there is nothing more boring than being a "slave to the metronome", and I would rather be a poor player who enjoys his practise and trusts his natural rhythm, suspect as it may be. Furthermore I would never recommend a metronome to a beginner, as it will most likely frustrate them, dent their confidence, or make them lose interest in the guitar (seen it happen), not to mention detract from other aspects of their technique which do not exist naturally in the human brain.

I suppose your feelings about the metronome issue also depend on the style of music you play, and whether you play solo or in a band.

The problem with most metronomes is they are so sterile. They have no feeling like a human being.

What I mean is this: A person may not be able to play along with a metronome because it lacks feel. The same person may play perfect time with a real live drummer. The drummer will naturally put emphasis on the beat. It has feel. And feel is what you need to keep time.

I have a pretty good sense of time. To me, keeping time is simply dancing to the music. When I hear music I also feel it. This is what helps me stay in time. I move my whole body when I listen to music, you may not see it outwardly, but I am always dancing.

Ever see Angus Young bob his head wildly? He is dancing. He is keeping time in his body and feelings.

Gadlaw, this is what I think is happening to you. When you play with your instructor, you can feel the music. So you keep time well. When you hear the metronome, you lose the feel.

You can feel the difference between 4/4 and 3/4. The difference is emphasis, accent, or stress on certain beats.

Most Rock music is 4/4 time. The beat is one, two, three, four, one, two, three, four....

Clap your hands. Clap lightly on the one and three beats, clap loudly on the two and four beats.
Now get into the feeling. Once you get the feeling and lock into the groove, you've got it.

Some Rock music is 3/4 time. Most 3/4 time is associated with the waltz. In 3/4 time, the emphasis is usually on beat one. A famous Rock song in 3/4 is Manic Depression by Jimi Hendrix. Listen to it if you have it. You can feel the one, two, three beat throughout.

one, two, three, one, two, three, one, two, three.....

Clap loudly on beat one, and very softly on beats two and three. You can almost feel yourself dancing a slow waltz.

All I can say is that when I use a metronome, I also have to feel the beat and emphasis inside my head and body. This is especially true at low speeds like 40 BPM. I find very slow tempo more difficult to feel and follow than a fast tempo like 100 BPM.

So, you are not weird, or a failure, or even unusual. You have got to get the feel. Then you will have the beat and tempo. If the metronome does not give you this feel, you have to create it within yourself.

I don't know if I explained that well.

Keeping time is a feeling. It is dancing. It is gettin' in the groove. You can do it. 8)

Edit- And one more important thing to add. Keeping time is not something you can force or press. No, just the opposite. You need to relax as much as possible. It is all about trusting your feelings and not being afraid to follow them. Your body wants to keep good time. Our whole body runs on time. Our heart beats at a steady rate. When you walk, you generally walk at a very steady pace. We breathe at an even pace. Your body already has almost perfect rhythm. So trust your feelings. If you get tense and try to force it, you lose it.

The problem with most metronomes is they are so sterile. They have no feeling like a human being.
In my view, that's a metronome's biggest benefit. Like I said, it leaves you nowhere to hide. It's all you.

paul donnelly

I am not too keen on metronomes, I do own one but rarely use it. I like drum machines much better because you can program a beat with accents.

But I cannot stand recorded music using drum machines. It is lifeless. Music to me is all about feelings and emotion. I cannot stand music that lacks true feeling. Give me a real drummer anytime. I could care less if they are a millisecond off.

And this is an issue I have with many "shredders". They can play a million notes per measure. BORING. It is not a coincedence that many shredders practice constantly with a metronome. Ain't putting these players down, they are amazing. But give me someone who plays with emotion like Hendrix or SRV any day of the week.

Just my 2 cents. I know many will disagree.

Yeah, I'm not big on the shredders either. I'm not saying anyone should be a "slave to the metronome", but I do think it's an invaluable tool for solidifying your sense of time. As a bassist, that's of extreme importance to me. It may not be such a big issue for guitarists since they've generally got drums and bass to back them up, but when the whole band is right on, it's an awesome thing. Good music can be a bit off, but jaw-dropping music generally isn't.

Interesting discussion. Thank you for the step by step info Wes, I've printed it up and am using it. I know I can 'internalize' my sense of timing with various bits of music I know, it's my efforts to push out and expand what I know and what I can do that provides the frustration and the sense of accomplishment when I get something that eludes me. If it was all easy it wouldn't be nearly as much fun I think. Thanks everyone for the intervention. :)

gadlaw
If it was all easy it wouldn't be nearly as much fun I think.

I couldn't agree with you more. :D You know, lots of folks complain about how difficult guitar is, but I have always been thankful that it is. I am a person who needs a challange, and guitar has provided an endless challange for me for over 30 years now. I never get bored with it. And I will never quit either, simply because I have put too much time and effort into it.

I like your attitude. You will be alright. 8)

Paul - You are probably right about being a bass player. My last band I had an awesome bass player named Leroy Muzon from Philadelphia. He travelled the country for 10 years with a gospel group back in the 80's. He had an incredible ear and PERFECT timing.

He always practiced with a drum machine. The only funny part was that if he made a mistake (very rare), he had to start his drum machine over. He couldn't come back in on the beat. I used to laugh at that. It was a mental thing. He wasn't like that playing live music, only with the drum machine.

But he had incredible good timing. So you are right, a metronome helps you develop great time.

Drum machine is better though. :P

YES!! SOMEONES GOING THROUGH THE SAME THING I AM.

I started using a free online metranome a few days ago and it destroyed my confidence. Whenever I tryed to play with the metranome it felt like a constant battle, a shoot or miss thing. Here's what was going through my head.

One, two, three, dang it, did I miss that one? Dang, I missed three, four, five, while I was wondering if I missed that one, nine, ten. Alright, let me try again.

One, two, three, four, one, two, three, you know, I haven't heard it for a while, oh there it is, and I missed it.

So what? can I not hear it when I get it? Let me see.

One, two, three, four. I think I missed all of those, because I could hear the metranome and I could hear the guitar. Here, I'll listen really carefully to see if they over lap.

Alright, one, comeone comeone, two, dangit, three, YES, I think, four, screw it.

Basically I did this for about fifteen minutes and felt like shooting myself in the face by the end. But check out that article someone posted above. I just spent an hour on that lesson and I'm only to like excersize six. Granted, you don't have to spend so much time, but after a while I decided to get my Mel Bays guitar chords book and make it a double lesson. And I'm still not that great a keeping time, but I've actually started to like the metranome. I've never been able to just mess around with the guitar for very long. I always have to be trying out tabs or learning a new rythm or something, but having the metranome helps give structure to my playing, albeit not so great yet.

Then the best part is, after a while you stop battling the metranome naturally. You kinda sinc up with it, and always hear it, but never notice it until you miss a beat. Which, I assure you, is much more pleasent then the struggle it takes to get to this point. Anyway keep it up. And try that article.

^ I laughed reading your post because I know exactly what you are going through. Its normal, and you'll get it. I think the overriding points of this whole thread are:

1.) RELAX. Thats the only way you will pick up a groove. Trust me, I've tried all the others. Relaxing, as hard as this can be to do when playing, is what helped me get over major obstacles such as developing speed, etc. I'm still not as fast as I want, but I'm a lot better now than when I was wound up tighter than a drum. You make less mistakes too, since you are concentrating on beat and are nice and loose.

2.) Metronomes or a mechanical time keeping device in general can do nothing but good, since they force you to clean up your playing and make you find the groove. As Paul said, a timekeeping device such as a metronome gives you nothing to hide you flaws behind. As to which is better, I'm not touching that one. On the one hand, having beats accentuated via a drum machine can be a good thing, since it assists in keeping the groove real while having rock solid tempo. Metronomes probably offer a bigger challenge, but are harder to use for the same reason, sine they deny any natural feel. You can argue that this will in fact inhibit your development since it offers no sustanence for your natural rythym; You are on your own when it comes to beat accentuation, etc. You'll try harder, overplay, and bam you're tightened up and flubbing notes all over the place. :)

I think the only important thing is to have some sort of infallible, non-human time keeping device that never alters the tempo you set it at. I can see where a drum machine would help you relax more since it mimicks a live playing situation, but I use a metronome because they're cheaper :)

Whatever works!

I use one when I am practicing different sequences. One of my sequences starts with 3 notes a beat for about 8 measures and then changes to 4 notes a beat for another 8 measures and back to 3. I would have never got the sequences correct without my little clickity friend. It will keep you honest, that is for sure.

YES!! SOMEONES GOING THROUGH THE SAME THING I AM.

I started using a free online metranome a few days ago and it destroyed my confidence. Whenever I tryed to play with the metranome it felt like a constant battle, a shoot or miss thing. Here's what was going through my head.

One, two, three, dang it, did I miss that one? Dang, I missed three, four, five, while I was wondering if I missed that one, nine, ten. Alright, let me try again.

One, two, three, four, one, two, three, you know, I haven't heard it for a while, oh there it is, and I missed it.

So what? can I not hear it when I get it? Let me see.

One, two, three, four. I think I missed all of those, because I could hear the metranome and I could hear the guitar. Here, I'll listen really carefully to see if they over lap.

Alright, one, comeone comeone, two, dangit, three, YES, I think, four, screw it.

Basically I did this for about fifteen minutes and felt like shooting myself in the face by the end. But check out that article someone posted above. I just spent an hour on that lesson and I'm only to like excersize six. Granted, you don't have to spend so much time, but after a while I decided to get my Mel Bays guitar chords book and make it a double lesson. And I'm still not that great a keeping time, but I've actually started to like the metranome. I've never been able to just mess around with the guitar for very long. I always have to be trying out tabs or learning a new rythm or something, but having the metranome helps give structure to my playing, albeit not so great yet.

Then the best part is, after a while you stop battling the metranome naturally. You kinda sinc up with it, and always hear it, but never notice it until you miss a beat. Which, I assure you, is much more pleasent then the struggle it takes to get to this point. Anyway keep it up. And try that article.

Well said. "Destroyed my confidence.." That's pretty much my feeling going the instruction from the teacher. But, while playing with Guitar Pro and it's metronome it occurred to me to try the number of clicks per stroke instead of the odd way the instructor was telling me which was basically not hitting the string or chord on the click but some internally recognized beat related to the click. If that makes any sense. I'm happy with making mistakes, it means I'm trying. But with following the clicks I'm at least in the ballpark. And then I can go on to more pressing problems like hitting 4 A chords- one G chord at the end of the 4 chords and hitting a F Barre chord for another 4 beats. Man, now that makes me cry. :lol: