I've mentioned elsewhere that I'm considering signing up for lessons again.
From the other post: I had a conversation with the lessons co-ordinator of a larger facility. She said they will not hire younger guitarists to teach just because they are fantastic guitarists. They have to be able to teach. She knew exactly what I was talking about, and runs into it all the time. She said based on our conversation she has two older, more experienced teachers in mind for me. So I am thinking seriously about signing up for lessons at this larger facility in the near future. I've put together a resume' of sorts of what I've done, what I want to do, what I want out of my lessons and my teacher.
Is this sufficient to give the teacher an idea of my direction and not make the same mistakes I made the previous two times I had lessons? Anything I should add or omit?
Areas for improvement/learning, goals:
I prefer rhythm, first and foremost. Not interested in Pentatonic scales, lead or soloing, unless the solo is melody over the rhythm.
Improve barre chords, though I try working at them. I understand Root 6 E shape and Root 5 A shape major and minor. I have a basic, but not complete understanding of chord intervals and keys. I have a detailed and colorful chart I put together for those.
Learn scales; other than the major scale, almost no knowledge of other scales.
Need to learn more than learning a song from a tab or chord sheet from the internet.
Learn varied rhythm patterns and techniques: 12 bar blues; reggae; shuffle; palm muting; etc.
Learn to play melody with chords.
Accomplished and/or working on; can get mostly through, with some flubs:
Some finger-picking (intro to Dust in the Wind; Coconut; Working Class Hero finger-picked).
Some 12 bar blues (I Hear You Knocking).
Dust In The Wind - Kansas, intro
Heart Of Gold - Neil Young
House Of The Rising Sun - The Animals, basic rhythm, strumming 6/8; want to do it arpeggio.
Night Moves – Bob Seger
I Hear You Knocking - Dave Edmunds
Imagine - John Lennon
My Sweet Lord - George Harrison, intro and basic rhythm up to the change to G#dim C#7 F#m B C#m progression.
Proud Mary - Creedence Clearwater Revival, basic rhythm and chord changes pretty much through
Sundown - Gordon Lightfoot, basic rhythm and chord changes pretty much through (did a Youtube video).
Werewolves of London (pretty much worked it out myself)
Venus – Shocking Blue (the B7sus4 is a killer)
Get Back – The Beatles
It is difficult to answer when one does not understand the question.
Frank your first line says no Pentatonic scales and then your third bullet says scales? Do you want to learn them or don't you?
I don't really think listing all the exact songs you can play/almost play is necessary most likely the teacher will ask you to play something in the first lesson or two and the will get an idea where you are.
Again every one learns and wants to learn different things so my experience may or not realte to you but I use songs as the material to practice techniques so if you want to learn to play a shuffle find a song you like that has one going on and work that out with your teacher. You will not only learn a new song but a new technique which will be basically the same in every other song so you kill to birds with one stone. Otherwise you can just practice shuffles in different keys but I find it much more enjoyable if I'm learning a song that has that in it.
"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!
Agreed. You can just say "not interested in being a lead guitarist" and you should be fine. You will (eventually) want to learn about various scales in order to play fills and things to go along with your rhythm.
Good luck with this and keep us posted!
Peace
Frank your first line says no Pentatonic scales and then your third bullet says scales? Do you want to learn them or don't you?
I'd like to learn them but I don't want to make them the focus as happened last time. I should be more clear. It's not that I don't understand them or know what they are, it's the shapes for the voicings I have not learned.
I don't really think listing all the exact songs you can play/almost play is necessary most likely the teacher will ask you to play something in the first lesson or two and the will get an idea where you are.
Just examples so I don't have to rattle them off of what I like and would like to learn more of.
I use songs as the material to practice techniques so if you want to learn to play a shuffle find a song you liek thta has one going on and work that out with your teacher. You will not only learn a new song but a new technique which will be basically the same in every other song so you kill to birds with one stone.
Yeah, that's exactly what I'm getting at. I don't want a song tabbed out for me like we were doing last time. Heck, I've got almost 90 tabs and chord sheets for the songs I like. But the sheet for You Don't Mess Around With Jim doesn't tell me how to play it. Neither does Bad Boys; I have no idea how to do reggae.
Otherwise you can just practice shuffles in different keys but I find it much more enjoyable if I'm learning a song that has that in it.
That's what was happening with the pentatonic scales last time. I could practice them all day long and memorize them like I know my social security number, but to what end if I wasn't going to use them for what I want to play? Ya hear what me say? :P
It is difficult to answer when one does not understand the question.
I could be wrong on this again but you say you don't want to play lead but at some point if youstick with it you will be able to play rhythms fine but do you then want to stop learning.
Now for me that's really all I really wanted to do but once I started playing it was realy impossible to focus only on lead when you don't have the rhythm down so I've worked more on rhythm than I expected and maybe not as far along in my lead playing but I'm learning new stuff all the time and improving.
I think my point is that you'll keep raising the bar as you continue to improve. At tfist it's wow if I could only play a few songs I love around the campfire that would be cool. Then when you do that you realize hey that's not that difficult and you set a ne goal.
with me it was I just wanted to play some songs for myself and maybe with my daughter, then I started playing with people and said why not play out I have nothing else better to do.
"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!
Agreed. You can just say "not interested in being a lead guitarist" and you should be fine. You will (eventually) want to learn about various scales in order to play fills and things to go along with your rhythm.
Definitely. Just not now. I have enough work to do with chords, rhythm, timing, strumming patterns.
Good luck with this and keep us posted!
Peace
Thanks... will do.
It is difficult to answer when one does not understand the question.
Actually, the list makes perfect sense to me. If you want to stick to rhythm, there's a basic skill progression that includes scales but not soloing:
- learn the basic chords as memorized shapes
- learn to barre the common open chord shapes so you can play #/b chords
- learn where all the notes are on the fretboard so you can find them quickly
- learn the major scale in all positions
- learn to SEE the major scale tones in your chord fingerings
- learn how chords are built (basic chord theory)
- learn how your common fingerings can be altered to create other chords, like extensions (9ths, 11ths, 13ths) and altered chords... the "jazz chords"
- learn other scale structures and see how the "jazz chords" fit those scales and vice versa
I agree with cnev that a list of songs you can already play isn't much help - the teacher will want to SEE you play, so he/she can spot weaknesses in technique. But a list of songs you're interested in (whether you can play them or not) is helpful, because the teacher can integrate those into the lessons.
And I'm in the camp of those who won't hire younger teachers too (our youngest is 28). I get about a call a month from somebody wanting a young teacher for their child so they can "relate". I've even had people tell me they won't consider a teacher who's above high school age! But really you're buying - or hoping to buy - expert instruction in a skill; although it's important to have some level of comfort, it's not important to like the same movies, clothing, or whatever... just because someone is older doesn't mean they're ignorant of today's music (although sometimes that's true - I also won't hire older teachers who only teach from the songs they personally like to play, and I've known more than a few of them over the years)
Guitar teacher offering lessons in Plainfield IL
I could be wrong on this again but you say you don't want to play lead but at some point if youstick with it you will be able to play rhythms fine but do you then want to stop learning.
Of course not. Rhythm won't be the end of my learning. You (should) never stop learning; that's when you die mentally. Playing along with a group of other guys, and "stepping forward" to do a/the solo of a song would be a lot of fun (if not a little intimidating). But I have no interest in becoming Slash or Steve Vai (I just hear those names thrown around :lol: ) as it seems a lot of people want to do.
I think my point is that you'll keep raising the bar as you continue to improve. At tfist it's wow if I could only play a few songs I love around the campfire that would be cool. Then when you do that you realize hey that's not that difficult and you set a ne goal.
We are in total agreement. See, what has me gun-shy is that we were doing a mix of things before. I didn't feel there was a solid foundation or a reason for what we were doing. It just wasn't all coming together. The only thing that has pretty much stuck with me and I can understand and use the concept is barre chords and their movability (is that a word?).
I'm the kind of person that has to learn in steps in a structured manner. And maybe most experienced teachers do that; I haven't experienced that. In my two experiences, we were all over the map.
It is difficult to answer when one does not understand the question.
Actually, the list makes perfect sense to me. If you want to stick to rhythm, there's a basic skill progression that includes scales but not soloing:
- learn the basic chords as memorized shapes
- learn to barre the common open chord shapes so you can play #/b chords
- learn where all the notes are on the fretboard so you can find them quickly
- learn the major scale in all positions
- learn to SEE the major scale tones in your chord fingerings
- learn how chords are built (basic chord theory)
- learn how your common fingerings can be altered to create other chords, like extensions (9ths, 11ths, 13ths) and altered chords... the "jazz chords"
- learn other scale structures and see how the "jazz chords" fit those scales and vice versa
Great... thanks. See, I think we can all figure out how to play a song by rote. But in my Youtube video people suggested, and probably rightly so, that the key was not right for my voice, but on my own, I have no idea how to transpose to a proper key. Oh sure, I can learn, but how long will it take on my own?
I agree with cnev that a list of songs you can already play isn't much help - the teacher will want to SEE you play, so he/she can spot weaknesses in technique. But a list of songs you're interested in (whether you can play them or not) is helpful, because the teacher can integrate those into the lessons.
That's what I'm getting at with that list. I can't play them perfectly. When I practice/play, if someone inthe house hears me (as long as I don't know someone is lisening) that's great. But in no way am I comfortable playing it for an audience of even one, because there are things I feel in my gut that I am doing wrong, but I can't put my finger on it (no pun intended). It may be my timing; inefficient chord changes; etc.
Please don't think I'm arguing with anyone; just trying to express that I don't want to be spending $80/month ($100 last time) and falling into the same situation.
And I'm in the camp of those who won't hire younger teachers too (our youngest is 28). I get about a call a month from somebody wanting a young teacher for their child so they can "relate". I've even had people tell me they won't consider a teacher who's above high school age!
It should be easy enough for the parent to put an ad in the paper asking for a high school student to come over for private lessons!
just because someone is older doesn't mean they're ignorant of today's music (although sometimes that's true
I see that here (boy did that come out wrong! :lol: ). What I mean is that a lot of us seem to be about the same ages and like the same kinds of music. Heck, just look at the ESD!
Btw, I've got your book, and yes it was a big help. It's about time to re-read it.
It is difficult to answer when one does not understand the question.
Frank,
I don'think you are arguing and I know where you are coming from. Like I said I know I am not learning things maybe the way I should be but for my current needs its working out.
I had to chuckle a little about playing in front of people etc. You'll have to play for your teacher at some point and to be honest for some reason I'm still nervous when i play things for him even though I can play the piece flawlessly or close to it at home. But I played at an open mic recently (and sang too) and didn't feel nervous at all. maybe because I didn't care and when I say I didn't care I mean I didn't care what people thought so maybe that made me a bit more comfortable.
I personally think your going through growing pains that we all go through and you seems pretty normal in your progress. finding the right teacher will be the best thing you can do.
"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!
Frank,
I don'think you are arguing and I know where you are coming from. Like I said I know I am not learning things maybe the way I should be but for my current needs its working out.
Good... it's so hard to get one's message across properly in writing. :D
I once made a post on another site, not asking for advice, just relating a story. I got all kinds of judgments about it, and when I tried to explain that they were not understanding I got jumped on for "asking for advice, then arguing about it". :shock: People! :roll:
Yes, I thought that going it alone would be a good idea, but I'm realizing it is harder than I thought. Though it has been serving a purpose. I knew at some point I would look into lessons again.
I had to chuckle a little about playing in front of people etc. You'll have to play for your teacher at some point and to be honest for some reason I'm still nervous when i play things for him even though I can play the piece flawlessly or close to it at home.
Oh please! When I played in front of him it was as if I never touched a guitar before. It was awful. I'm not sure if I was that intimidated by his skills, or I was losing interest. It seems to have started after I learned a few things on my own, and tried to show him so we could run with it. But it got brushed off, and then I'd flub everything. I'd have to say "I really do know the strings..." or "I know how to make this chord, really..."
But I played at an open mic recently (and sang too) and didn't feel nervous at all. maybe because I didn't care and when I say I didn't care I mean I didn't care what people thought so maybe that made me a bit more comfortable.
It helps too if the audience is drunk. :lol:
I personally think your going through growing pains that we all go through and you seems pretty normal in your progress. finding the right teacher will be the best thing you can do.
I never thought of it that way, but I'll bet you are right. You must be... you have more experience! :wink:
It is difficult to answer when one does not understand the question.
The decision is made. I'm going to the music center after work to find out what schedule is available for lessons. I thought scrounging up the money would be a problem but I found a big chunk of monthly monetary waste that would cover the lessons 4 times over! So not only can I easily pay for the lessons @ $80/mo., I am saving at least another $272 a month. Can't beat that with a stick.
The time slot would probably be late evening, 8-9pm because the younger people and kids are scheduled earlier. That time is fine with me. The music center is halfway between work and home (a total 30 mile drive), but I can stay at work and use the gym, shower and dress; and/or use the time to practice. I can hole up in one of our conference rooms with my headphones and Pocket-Rockit.
It is difficult to answer when one does not understand the question.
Good luck Frank, that'll be good if you can just hang out at work before you have to go to your lessons. When i first started with my current teacher and after being on a waiting list for over 6 months I got a 9:30 PM time. It sounded good at the time but after awhile it was difficult. I mean I never missed but I get home from work between 5 - 7 then after you eat and sit down for awhile it's tough to get ready to go at 9:30 I was always half asleep.
I finally moved to Saturday afternoons which is perfect for me. I don't have to worry about missing a lesson because I'm travelin and I can sleep late and still be ready to go.
The only thing that it could interfere with is golf which when I do golf on the weekends I like to do early in the Am anyway but that has come secondary to music the last year or so, so it's no big deal.
"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!
Thanks. I hope they do have a slot with one of the teachers she recommended. I have a feeling the later hours might be wide open. These guys are there until 9pm M-F. I might even just call and talk to the co-ordinator to see what we can set up.
It is difficult to answer when one does not understand the question.
Good... it's so hard to get one's message across properly in writing. :D
Ain't that the truth! :mrgreen:
I've written many a list of music related goals and schedules, but I've never managed to follow any of them. Writing them out helps me collect my thoughts - and is a valuable tool for just that - but I've never been able to then plod through whatever was on the list. Never. :shock:
I mostly learn now without a specific face to face teacher but I've taken some useful lessons at some time for all the instruments that I attempt to play - which is currently guitar, piano, clarinet, and occasional drums. In every case, the most significant factor was how good a fit I was with the particular teacher, not how much they knew, how good a player they were, or even how well trained they were in the theory of teaching. It's like choosing a wife - you can write out all the lists and goals that you like, but the only way to find out what really works it to live it for a while (and be prepared to be flexible...). :wink:
The thing is, I don't know exactly where I'm going until I start traveling, and even then the view (and my interpretation of it) keeps changing anyway. I went to one guy with the stated goal of learning some tips about singing. I did learn a few things about it too, but I learned far more from him about playing guitar and about recording techniques.
So now I just say that my goal is to keep improving my skills, my knowledge of music, and my enjoyment of it. No set courses or pre-determined routes for me. I'm not aiming to be a pro or a teacher myself. So I'm not looking to catch a train or a bus with a set route and a timetable, thanks. I'd rather have a horse or a dirt bike and keep the freedom to change direction when it seems appropriate....
All the best with finding the right mentor. :)
Cheers,
Chris
