Need help with beat concept.

Yah, that's basically it, spacing. Getting things even so they sync up with the beats of the metronome.

Tempo is another aspect of music really. There's no standard for 4/4. The 4/4 part just tells you, like a legend on a graph, that the basic, default note length is the quarter note, and that there will be 4 of them in each measure. The measure, just to quickly go over it, is just a way of subdividing the song up. I mean, in a 3 minute song, depending on the tempo, you might have, I don't know, 300 notes or something from start to finish. It's kinda hard to conceptualize 300 notes, so it's broken up in even groups.

Also, a measure is also a grouping to give the 'feel' of the notes going by. The first note in each measure, the downbeat, is normally the strongest beat, and then there's a softer 2nd one and then the 3rd beat is strong, but not as strong as the first, andd then the 4th one is soft again. Like with the notes, if you just had a string of notes all the same loudness, it would just be boring, with no emphasis. It could sound like just a bunch of 1/4 measures, you know? No beginning or end. So each measure has its own little grouping of emphasis to make things interesting, but also so you don'tt lose you place.

But...like I said, tempo is how fast or slow the whole thing is. It's related but separate from the measure/note thing.

And also, it's not really about actual, literal, mathematical speed. It's about relative values (just so long as they're equal). So tempo's also sorta relatiive.

If you have a metronome that has like Adagio, Largo and those kinds of classical music terms on it, you'll notice that each one has a 'range' of actual beat-per-minute settings. It's not exact.

So basically, practicing with a metronome is to help you make your strums and whatnot, equal and steady. It forces you to keep your focus 'on' at every moment so you don't drift off the beat. Start off slow and inch the speed up from time to time; it pushes you to play clearner and faster. Not all music is fast, and fast isn't a good thing by itself, but it's like if you can play something fast and clean, no mistakes, then if you play it slower, it'll be that much more clean. That kind of concept.

Hope this helps.

Yeah, it's about keeping your tempo even so you don't drift faster or slower. There are many times when you want to play a section faster or slower, but if you haven't been playing at a constant tempo then no one will be able to catch the change. Western music is based on steady beats in groups of two or three or four.

Ok, I think I understand measure. I sorta understand beats per measure. I know what a metronome is. But... what is the point of beats/measures/timing if they slow down or speed up? I can set the tempo on the metronome up or down. What am I really trying to do? Spacing (in time) of the strums?
Yes, I am a very green beginner (but it's still fun).

This is a good question, one I've been meaning to ask but I thought, somehow, I'd just figure it out on my own after time.
I have a metronome, I haven't used it yet?

Bob Jessie

what is the point of beats/measures/timing if they slow down or speed up? I can set the tempo on the metronome up or down. What am I really trying to do? Spacing (in time) of the strums?

The purpose of a beat is to give the music a pulse - it's the heartbeat of the song, the regular rhythm that holds everything together.

The purpose of a measure is to organize the beats - like Greybeard said, the downbeat is stronger. In music things break down into twos and threes... you've either got strong-weak (just like a heartbeat) or you've got strong-weak-weak. Even complex meters like 5/4 or 11/8 are just combinations of twos and threes... so you've always got one really strong beat - the downbeat, the first beat of the measure - and you've often got one or more pretty strong beats. Something like 4/4 time is two sets of two, strong-weak-strong-weak-strong-weak-strong-weak.

The purpose of timing is to coordinate those beats with a pace... whether you walk or run, you're still doing left-right steps, but they happen faster when you run. When you adjust the metronome, you're simply putting those beats closer together or farther apart.

Oh, and the 'standard' setting depends on the music; composers and songwriters do slow stuff, and they do fast stuff. If you picture the pace of your footsteps at walking speed, that corresponds to music in 'andante' - pretty slow. A 'moderate' tempo might be something in the range of 108-120 beats per measure... although in practice, conductors of bands that are less than professional (community orchestras, etc.) will conduct at a slightly slower tempo than written, because you don't want to go any faster than your weakest musician can play. Popular music runs the gamut from about 60-160 beats per minute, and many jazz tunes tend to be quicker, at 144-280 (!) beats per minute.

There are even some extremely slow pieces of music, like Chopin's Funeral March - those can drop down to 40 beats per minute or so. They're actually harder to play than quicker stuff, because we're not used to keeping an even tempo at such slow speeds.

First, thanks for the replies. They are very helpful. I never realized the strong/soft pattern but I be looking for that now and the rest of it is very good stuff as well.

However, there is another part of this though, that is still a bit of a puzzle. To illustrate the question, I've included a part of a song below that I've been working on (just for research of course, and my apologies to Dan for the way I play it). I think the question is "what is a note?".

When I see chords (for example those below), should I expect that each chord is 4 notes? Or that each line is 4 measures? Or (I suspect) that I that I should get off my lazy keaster and write down some measure bars and strum patterns that sound like the song and then make them fit proper spacing and just keep a regular beat?

Thanks again,
Grump :evil:

AS THE RAVEN FLIES (D. Fogelberg)
1972
Intro w/ Lead |: Am C F Em :|

Am C D F
I see the raven's made her nest in your eyes
Am C D F
She's got you thinkin' that her love is a prize
Am C D F
And you'll go under from the weight of her lies
Am C D F Am C D F
As the raven flies, as the raven flies

Gosh, I haven't done that tune in ages... good song.

Here's roughly how I did it way back when:

Am C
One-two-(rest)-(rest)-One-two-(rest)-(rest)
F Em G
One-two-(rest)-(rest)-one-and-two-and-(three)-four


Downstrokes for two beats, rest for two... alternate strumming on the Em, with a hold through the three count. When it goes to the bridge (darker darker...) which is on a D chord, alternate strumming with a lighter touch; you can also add notes - the sus4 on the 3rd fret of the E string, or adding the 9th on the open E.

D Dadd9 D Dsus4 D
one-and-a-two-and-a-three-and-a-four-e-and-(a)-one...


Hey, related question here...

So I think I understand the stuff in here, but for the life of me, the whole "rythm thing" still confuses me. I mean, how do develope rythm? Meaning I kind of know if say, I'm "goofing around" on my guitar (meaning strumming up & down both but not to particular song) and it's not to an even beat, & though I practice every day (though probably not as much as I should and definatly not as much as I want, maybe 10-30 minutes a day) for the live of me I have no idea how to improve and it's somewhat frustrating because I'm trying to learn "Horse With No Name" from the D. Hodge lessons and I can tell that the way I "play" it is not the same way as in the lesson, but I don't know how to get there. Make any sense?

Can anyone point me to some good excercises for this?

Keep in mind that I have no natural rythm so far as I can tell...

MeeBit

I think the question is "what is a note?".

When I see chords (for example those below), should I expect that each chord is 4 notes? Or that each line is 4 measures? Or (I suspect) that I that I should get off my lazy keaster and write down some measure bars and strum patterns that sound like the song and then make them fit proper spacing and just keep a regular beat?

Well in this case, a 'note' is a single pitch, like hitting just one string open, or one string while you're fretting it. One particular pitch, like hitting a single key on a piano.

In music 'notation', one of those filled-in oblongs with the stick on it would also be a 'note', but not only does it show the pitch, the actual sound (how high or low), but it also shows how 'long' it should be. And the length is relative to how fast the song is going, how many of those particular notes are supposed to be in each measure (or bar), etc.

A chord would be selected notes from a scale, like do re mi fa so la ti do kind of thing. Except with a chord, it's like you play one note, skip one, play the next, skip one, play the next. Again if you visualize a piano keyboard, it's like you have a note then your next finger plays a note '2 up' from that one, and then 2up again for the third one.

In the example song you have, the Am C D F are talking about chords, stacks of notes played at once, and then it's like Noteboat showed; they're played evenly, so many times per measure, etc. Sometimes though the same chords (on a different song) might be played in different groupings. It depends. When there's a song sheet like that with just the words and the chords on top, usually it's meant for someone who already knows the song and how it's supposed to sound. It's more difficult if it's like a brand new song someone wrote and you're given a sheet like that. But in this example, since it's a well known song, or at least you know it, then you can sorta strum and sing and listen to see if stuff matches, or...listen to the record and see how he's doing it in there - how many strums of which chord before going to the next, etc.

Also, back to chords again: chords, the basic 'theoretical' chords are usually thought of as stacks like I said, but usually only the three main notes that form them - like the first note (root), skip one (the 2nd), hit the third one (the 3rd), skip, and then the fifth (the 5th). And then sometimes another one stacked on top - the 7th. BUT the thing is with the guitar, with six strings and tuned the way it normally is, when you form a 'chord shape' with your fingers, there's lots of times duplicated notes, so you wind up with 5, sometimes 6 actual notes ringing out even though some of those are dupes.

Just to clarify that part of your question a little bit.

Best :)

I have sort of a similar problem.

I understand the concepts, including note, beat, measure, rests, ties, dots,
note values, signature. I can even write the counting symbols for a given piece.

However, it all falls apart when I try to play while tapping my foot.
I can handle, 1/4s (with rests ) and 1/8s (without rests) but 1/8 and 1/16 with rests are quite hard at the moment.

Does anyone know of a rhythm book that would help fix this problem.
I would imagine drummers must have to iron out their rhythm skills
pretty early. Maybe a drummer among us can provide a few tips.

Cheers

I have sort of a similar problem.

I understand the concepts, including note, beat, measure, rests, ties, dots,
note values, signature. I can even write the counting symbols for a given piece.

However, it all falls apart when I try to play while tapping my foot.
I can handle, 1/4s (with rests ) and 1/8s (without rests) but 1/8 and 1/16 with rests are quite hard at the moment.

Does anyone know of a rhythm book that would help fix this problem.
I would imagine drummers must have to iron out their rhythm skills
pretty early. Maybe a drummer among us can provide a few tips.

Cheers

I played drums for a while and I know what you mean. My music teacher occasionally would make me vocalise the rhythm before i played it (which i hated) but it actually worked.

I think, like anything in music, it really comes down to practice and repetition. Buy some sheet music of songs that you like with those rhythms and listen back to how it's played, i think that listening to a rhythm and repeating it over and over is probably the best way to go.

I'm sure you could also buy books based on rhythm practice, or even get a guitar or drum teacher to teach you this stuff.

Tempo is simply how fast or slow the song is played. A slow song would be maybe 60 beats per minute (60 BPM). Now this is easy, it is exactly like your clock. You would tap your foot once every second for one minute. :D

Now if your tempo is 120 BPM, you would have to tap your foot twice each second. This is a lot faster correct?

And if the tempo is 240 BPM, you would have to tap your foot four times each second. Now this is really fast.

But each tap is a quarter note. So at 60 BPM you have 60 quarter notes in one minute. At 120 BMP you have 120, and at 240 BPM you have 240 quarter notes in one minute.

So that is tempo.

As Noteboat said, music has a pulse. And as he said, there are beats that are strong and have emphasis, and beats that are weak. Think about any drummer you hear in any song. They do not hit the drum the exact way each beat. No, they put big emphasis on certain beats. If they hit the drum the same every beat that would be very monotonous and boring:

boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom boom, boom,..... :roll:

You hear a rare song like that, but most drummers put great emphasis on some beats, and weak emphasis on others.

Ever hear the fantastic drums that start Led Zeppelin's famous When the Levee Breaks?

boom, BOP! , ba boom boom BOP! , boom, BOP! , ba boom boom BOP!

Rhythm is the pattern you play. The first drummer was playing one steady beat each second. The second drummer played altogether different. But each is a rhythm. A rhythm is a set pattern you play.

Everybody has rhythm whether they know it or not. Your heart beats in a steady rhythm. You breathe in a steady rhythm, you walk and run in a steady rhythm. So don't believe that you do not have rhythm, you do. And rhythm is a very natural thing that your body wants to do. It is actually easier when you relax and don't worry about it. When you worry or put effort into it, you actually tend to stifle your body's natural rhythm.

So relax. :D

A Measure is simply a way to divide music. Like chapters in a book. Most Rock music is very simply 4/4 time. This means that each measure has four beats of quarter notes. A very common beat is.

boom BOP boom BOP boom BOP

or

one TWO three FOUR, one TWO three FOUR, one TWO three FOUR, one TWO three FOUR.

It is very common in Rock music to put emphasis on the second and fourth beats of a measure. You have heard thousands of songs like this.

Some music is 3/4 time. This has 3 beats, each a quarter note long per measure. Often the emphasis is on the first beat. So:

ONE two three, ONE two three, ONE two three.

A very rare Rock song with this beat is Manic Depression by Jimi Hendrix. If you know this song just hear it in your head and you can hear the three beats with emphasis on the first beat.

Waltzes are usually 3/4 time.

3/4 time is a little confusing. How can you have 3 quarter notes?? Shouldn't they be called one third notes?? Don't let that confuse you. They're not gonna change it now. :D

Anyway, going back to the clock. If you were playing a song in 4/4 time at 60 BPM, you would tap your foot on each second. Each tap would be a quarter note. Every four taps would be a measure, so you would have 15 measures in one minute. Got it?

If you are playing in 3/4 time at 60 BPM, you would still tap your foot once each second. But every 3 taps would be one measure, and you would have 20 measures in one minute's time.

Hope I haven't caused confusion. 8)