playing with metronome

your ears probably aren't lying to you. i didn't mean that he was a machine about it, and i know that he changes it a lot from song to song or from one rendition to the next, but he generally keeps the same riff or pattern within the same song. he doesn't change it up from verse to verse. even his melodic inventions generally stay pretty consistent within a song.

what are you listening to?

Ah in that way. Yeah, he does make heavy use of rhythmic themes, I was just trying to say that you don't need to 'burn' a pattern into your head in that you play it for hours without variation. It's what I like about his work: it's structured and cleanly executued but it's all 'natural' and fresh, which you don't get with a metronome or too rigid look on how you 'should' play.

Guess we kinda agree on things here.

yeah, but you still smell funny.

his bands are always tight and groove. i'm sure they use metronomes from time to time.

I was going to post this as a separate topic, but then I saw this one so i figured I might as well ask here....

How exactly do you practice to a metronome? So far I've just been doing some scales and instead of buying one I just use http://www.metronomeonline.com/ as my metronome. I usually practice at 60 (as most websites caution me to keep it slow).

Should I speed up? Should I try to practice other things with the metronome? Should I buy one?

Your answers are deeply appreciated.

You can practice strumming. Start with 1/4 note strums (4 down strums) on the beat and say "and" as your arm comes up for the next down strum (1 and 2 etc) then do 8th notes hitting the strings up and down, then back to the 1/4 notes back and forth. Swing your arm in time to the metronome always

go as fast as you can while still maintaining the integrity of your playing. if the tone or playing turns to junk or your timing is off, back off the speed.
you can also use it as a kind of drummer. play whatever you want, just make sure you stay in time with the beat.

Hi,

Some people hate metronomes and prefer to practice using drum machines, backing tracks, Cds or whatver.

I don't honestly think it matters which you use, so long as you do use something to check whether you can keep accurate time or not. We all think we can, but the issue is whether you can do it when somebody else is setting the beat not you. Shouldn't matter all that much if it's a drummer or a metronome. We also need to know if we can quickly get back on the beat if we make a mistake, or get a bit out of time.

The advantage of a metronome is that they are easy to carry around and are very quick and easy to set to different speeds.

When you're singing as well, you're in effect playing two instruments at once so it will be harder to keep track of everything and also to be checking how it's going. So I'd certainly be trying to get each element accurately under control before putting them together.

Cheers,

Chris

I don't honestly think it matters which you use, so long as you do use something to check whether you can keep accurate time or not.

For me, atleast, a drum machine is much easier and I think it covers up some mis-timings. I played with a click track tonight, on a song I am really familiar with and i got so frustrated that I couldnt stay in time. But when I did the same some with a drum machine I felt like I was right on. Same BPS and everything. It was odd.

Jim

For me, atleast, a drum machine is much easier and I think it covers up some mis-timings. I played with a click track tonight, on a song I am really familiar with and i got so frustrated that I couldnt stay in time. But when I did the same some with a drum machine I felt like I was right on. Same BPS and everything. It was odd.

Jim

Interesting observation, Jim. :)

Metronomes do seem to have a sort of ruthless mechanical quality that can seem quite off-putting. In can see why many people don't like them - I'm not exactly fond of them myself.

I wonder if drum machines do 'cover up' a bit, or whether there's other factors too? As I mentioned earlier I greatly prefer my big clockwork metronome because I get a strong visual cue from the big swinging arm. I can tell how far through the beat I am and don't need to wait until the clang or click arrives to tell me. That seems to help a lot.

Similarly, with some drum tracks I guess you can be getting more sounds than just a bash on the beat, so it's easier to know where you are? Do you use a drum pattern that has fills and so on or just a basic beat'? I wonder if that's part of it?? That might be a daft question. Excuse ignorance, I know nothing about drumming yet... :oops: ... got the book and CD...got the drum machine... just haven't put the time in yet.. :roll: ..

Cheers,

Chris

I've been using metronome for a few months and I can say that it is an unbeliavably helpful tool. I used to learn songs playing along a cd and i still do it when I learn a new one but the metronome gives you teh unvaluable chanche to slow the speed when you learn someting so the learning process it is a lot faster.

I.e a few months ago I started to learn power chords and i was quite useless: no chanche to play along a record. So i started palying them at 100 bpm withj metronome and now that after some mteronome sessions, I can deal tehm quite confortably to at least 140, I can finally play along to some cds

The only thing that disturbed me was the accents of teh beats so I put the mteronome to 0 beats in order to listen only to the pure "click" sound and so it worked well for me

Matteo

I can tell how far through the beat I am and don't need to wait until the clang or click arrives to tell me. That seems to help a lot.

I think you are on to something there Chris. I just use a basic drum beat pattern, no fills. But with the other 'sounds', I can tell where the beat is at. With the click track (metronome) I dont get that. Plus, I find myself worrying where that dreaded 1 beat click is at.

However, when I am playing with the click track if I tap my foot (like I am supposed to do) then its a little easier. Maybe that is cause with my foot I can tell when that next click is going to happen.
The only thing that disturbed me was the accents of teh beats so I put the mteronome to 0 beats in order to listen only to the pure "click" sound and so it worked well for me

I think I will do that too. Never thought about it. I think trying to use the logical part of my brain messes with the other part. When IS that first beat coming?? :D

Jim

I think I will do that too. Never thought about it. I think trying to use the logical part of my brain messes with the other part. When IS that first beat coming?? :D

Jim

Good points from Matteo. :) Like Jim, I also find that 'first beat' thing messes the mind a bit when I first start on something. It's not too hard to get back on the beat when you've stuffed something up, but having to realign myself to the beat and the start of the bar adds a bit of extra stress. :shock:

Of course, I do need to be able to jump right back onto the right part of the right bar in a playing situation, but it's one less thing to worry about at the start of practice. So I'll try setting to 0 for the first runs through too. Sounds good. Great to get some different ideas and angles to try. 8) Must read the instructions for the drum tracks too.... :roll:

Cheers,

Chris

Hi Jim and Chris

regarding the first beat start, I solved it like this:

a) always play my foot (left or right it depends on the mood) along the metronome so that I tap my foot each time the metronome plays a click. As you may have noticed to tap yourt foot is an unbelievably helpful trick to keep a steady beat (I always tap my foot when I play be it alone, with a metronome, alongside a cd etc.);
b) since my metronome has a display with a hand going lef to right, I choose as first beat and start to play a beat when the hand is on the left. Sometimes I give a fast sight at the metronome display to check if everything is still alrght (meaning that each time I strum on the 1st and 3rd beat, the strum must fall on the left side of teh display). This also help me to determine if a sub-beat strum falls right (i.e. if I play two eight notes in the same beat the second strum should fall iwhen the hand is in the middle of the display, if I play a dotted quarter note followed by a sixteen noe, the sixteen note strum should fall when the hand is three quarter of the display etc.), particullary helpful when you learn complex off-beats rhythyhms and syncopated sixteen notes rhythms
c) if I have to play a complex rhythm before start to play I tap my foot only for a full measure (4 clicks of teh metronome if I play in 4/4), counting 1,2,3,4 and start to play on the fifth time I tap my foot (it is like in a real band when before start to play a song toghether the drummer counts 1 to four playing the hi-hat to give the time to the rest of the band)

Last thing: to fully advantage of metronome benefits you have to learn two abilities before:

a) how to play a steady beat with your foot (FUNDAMENTAL excercise). It is quite easy to learn: if you tap your foot along the metronome clik for say 10 minutes a day for a full week, you should learn to do it acceptably well (of course you become better if you keep tapping your foot to the beat each time you play or when you listen to a song);
b) learn to correctly sincronize your right hand movement with your foot. It is quite easy to learn with eight notes rhythms (in an eight note fashion each time you tap your foot you're doing a downstrum wit your right hand, each time you raise your foot you're doing an upstrum with your hand), more complex with sixteen notes since right hand movement is twice as fast the foot one. This is also a fundamental excercise to be praticed for several consecutive days until you internalize it: don't be discouraged if you need quite a bit to learn it because it is well worth the time you spend on it

cheers

Matteo

Yep, I'm a big fan of the "Footronome" too. Always get that foot tap going... 8)

BTW,

For further reading on using metronomes to improve your time keeping, you can't go past Tom Serb's article here at GN (Tom is 'Noteboat')

Keeping Time

Worth reading. Even better if you print it out and actually do some of it... :P

I came across it in my music folder this morning. Don't think I did all the exercises yet though... :oops: :oops: