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Proper Pick Grip Inconsistent In Research Results

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(@rparker)
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Joined: 20 years ago
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Back in '04, I had an instructor for a brief period of time. Before that, it was a beginner's book. That book illustrated how to hold the pic. I did that. No problems. I go to my first lesson and the first thing he does is change my grip. Basically, he has me hold the pic in my hand with the thumb straight across and my index finger on the opposite side straight down from top to bottom. It didn't feel quite right, but this is a live human so I go with it and I got used to it. Not a whole lot of un-learning to do.

As anyone knows who's been playing for any length of time, pics like to shift and move. How do we counter? Increase grip strength. Fast forward 5 years. I posted a song on hear hear https://www.guitarnoise.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=43755 and dogbite noticed that he thought he heard evidence of too much tension in my wrists. He was spot on. I've been working on smoother strums as well as other right hand techniques like partial chord strumming, picking notes and strumming in time together, when to really tighten up the wrist for desired effect, etc. It kind of defaulted into my early '09 goal. Learn more about the right hand.

I spent some time last night and some more time this morning researching the issue(s) of proper strumming techniques, and included pic holding. It's all connected just like a golf swing. Well, come to find out, no site or link or video showed anything other than what the book said, and one video even showed footage of doing it wrong...which what I was doing.

So, now I've got 3 years invested into playing (5 years if you count several really long "breaks") and now I have to re-learn a basic, page 3 kind of thing that is throwing my playing way out of whack. Or do I? Some of you are teachers. What do you suggest? Keep on with what I know, or go back and change the basic fundamental that has my wrist too tight due to compensating for poor pic grip? Bite the bullet, so to speak.

Signed,

Frustrated In Raleigh :evil:

Roy
"I wonder if a composer ever intentionally composed a piece that was physically impossible to play and stuck it away to be found years later after his death, knowing it would forever drive perfectionist musicians crazy." - George Carlin


   
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(@jeffster1)
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How did the book explain to hold it?

As far as I'm aware, most (almost all) accomplished guitarists hold the pick the way your teacher described, with the thumb across and the index finger down. This is how I hold it. My most recent teacher held it differently, with both the thumb and index finger pointing almost directly down.

The way your teacher described I believe is the "correct" way. It's not the only way of course. You mentioned the golf swing, and in golf, almost all pros put the pinky from the bottom hand over the index finger from the top hand, and teachers will typically teach you not to interlock these fingers. However, tiger woods does interlock them, and he's the best in the world.

Edit: Increasing grip strength is almost all psychological, believe me. I have this same problem, and I've been working on it. Every time I find myself playing really well, I notice my right hand is relaxed and "loose". Every time I'm missing solos I should be nailing, I notice my grip is stiff. Check your picking technique, try a different thickness (maybe thinner) pick, and try tilting the pick and using more of the pick's "edge" instead of using it flat on. That one really helped me out. Also, make sure you're not picking the strings with too much force.


   
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 cnev
(@cnev)
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have to agree with Jeff. The way your teacher showed is the typical way most people hold it and that was the way I was taught and like jeff said it is similar to what in golf is the "pro" grip where they over lap their fingers instead of interlock them, but Tiger uses a the interlock grip.

Personally I would think the way you hold the pic is rather irrelevant as long as it's comfortable and you can control it. At the end of the day it's only about the angle that the pic hits the string so like a golf swing it doesn't matter how you get there but at impact it better be the same all the time.

I'd say just find a position that feels comfortable when holding the pick and maybe try lightening up on the angle you attack the strings might help with fluidity of your strumming.

"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!


   
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(@rparker)
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Topic starter  

The book and some research and some YouTube videos show the thumb going across and the index finger going across on the back side...sometimes at a slight angle down, sometimes not. Never straight down. Two other books I have and just looked at are actually split on the issue. Groovy. Nothing like a little consistency.

Heh! That's funny about the golf grip. That's new. 30 years ago it was all about interlocking. I remember when the overlap first got popular. Too late too change. They won't mess with an old guy's grip, but I guess they teach the newbies the overlap now? The just look at us old guys to make sure shaft is positioned properly, leading thumb and whole top (right for righties) hand not too weak or too strong, etc. That, and have we adjusted our swing planes to account for our bellies getting bigger properly. :lol: There's even one guy in Canada somewhere who is quite famous in some circles for being a scratch golfer with a Ty Cobb grip. (hands apart 1/2 inch or so)

Back to guitars: I've been messing with the pick angle a little bit. Lots of experimenting, figuring out what sounds best for what purpose. Maybe it's all the same. Not sure. Kind of like, do we want whatever the angle is supposed to be on a strum to be the same when picking out some lead riff or something. I think, not sure, but I think there are times when less angle (more perpendicular to strings) gives a desired effect.....but it's not regular strumming. That much I know. I guess that question would be written like "Do we increase the angle for picking, double stops, etc?"

Back to the pick grip. I think I'm going to stick with what I know unless too many people suggest otherwise. When you gets conflicting reports, ya do whatchya do best.

Roy
"I wonder if a composer ever intentionally composed a piece that was physically impossible to play and stuck it away to be found years later after his death, knowing it would forever drive perfectionist musicians crazy." - George Carlin


   
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(@boxboy)
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There's even one guy in Canada somewhere who is quite famous in some circles for being a scratch golfer with a Ty Cobb grip. (hands apart 1/2 inch or so).

That sounds like Moe Norman, Roy. He's dead now, but tons of people, including Tiger Woods, consider him one of the finest ball strikers who ever lived. He used to hit balls on the range of a course I played and it was something to see. He could hit drive after drive within maybe a 4 foot circle. Amazing.
Bob Estes, on the PGA Tour for years uses a baseball or ten finger grip.
Sorry, back to picks. Here's a picture of what I'd say was 'proper' pick technique. The thumb and index finger are basically at cross angles to each other. Seemingly like what you were taught.

:)
Edit: Found a reference for what Woods said:
'Further testimony to Hogan's (and Norman's) status among top golfers is provided by Tiger Woods, who recently said that he wished to "own his (golf) swing" in the same way as Moe Norman and Hogan had. Woods claimed that this pair were the only players ever to have "owned their swings", in that they had total control of it and, as a result, of the ball's flight (Golf Digest, January 2005).'

Don


   
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(@rparker)
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Hi Don, I saw that variation as well. Not quite so straight up and down on the pick with the index finger, but same angle in relation to the thumb. Truth is, I'm probably closer to that than I am to the 100% straight up index finger. Minimal difference though.

Now I feel really compelled to change this thread's title. :oops:

re Golfer: As the story goes, that dude suffered from some form of Autism and drank Cokes like they were going out of style? I think I recognize the name. Anyone who can hit a 4 foot circle with a wood.....dang! I've had putts where I couldn't do that. I do have a career low 68 though....different day. :D

Roy
"I wonder if a composer ever intentionally composed a piece that was physically impossible to play and stuck it away to be found years later after his death, knowing it would forever drive perfectionist musicians crazy." - George Carlin


   
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(@rparker)
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Topic starter  

Thread Title Changed.

Roy
"I wonder if a composer ever intentionally composed a piece that was physically impossible to play and stuck it away to be found years later after his death, knowing it would forever drive perfectionist musicians crazy." - George Carlin


   
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(@boxboy)
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Hi Don, I saw that variation as well. Not quite so straight up and down on the pick with the index finger, but same angle in relation to the thumb. Truth is, I'm probably closer to that than I am to the 100% straight up index finger. Minimal difference though.

Now I feel really compelled to change this thread's title. :oops:

re Golfer: As the story goes, that dude suffered from some form of Autism and drank Cokes like they were going out of style? I think I recognize the name. Anyone who can hit a 4 foot circle with a wood.....dang! I've had putts where I couldn't do that. I do have a career low 68 though....different day. :D

Cool, Roy. I posted the pic hoping to clarify what you'd been taught to do. A relaxed curl to the index finger seems really important to me. A straight up and down index finger seems too rigid. If your instructor had you doing that, I'd agree he got it wrong. But hopefully the heavy hitters on the site can give you more concrete advice. :)
re: Golfer. That's Moe alright! I found a reference to the Woods' quote and edited my post above.
:)

Don


   
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(@davidhodge)
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It truly is a matter of personal comfort but it's also a matter of fingers as well. Why doesn't everyone swing a bat like Hank Aaron or a golf club like Tiger Woods? It's not always possible.

I watch a guitar master like Wendell Holmes and see that he's holding the pick so lightly and so far back on the base (the non-pointy end) that it looks like the slightest breeze will send the pick to China. Yet I've never seen him lose one.

For whatever it's worth, I hold mine almost like a chopstick. The pick actually rests on my middle finger and my index finger curls around the edge(far corner of the pick rests in the first knuckle joint) while the thumb holds it in place.

Ultimately, of course, there's no one right way. But you may find yourself using different holds to get different grips in order to produce different tones.

Hope this helps.

Peace


   
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(@vic-lewis-vl)
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Ultimately, of course, there's no one right way. But you may find yourself using different holds to get different grips in order to produce different tones.

Yep - everyone's different. There's no absolute right or wrong way, there's only the best way for you. Experiment, trial and error....one day it'll click into place.

Me? I don't like picks - I'd rather use my fingers. Use a pick, and you're introducing a third party into the relationship between your fingers and your strings - I seem to be able to control my tone far better with my fingernail than with a pick. My fingers are far more sensitive than a piece of plastic. Occasionally, I'll have to use a pick, when the index fingernail breaks and it's too short to sound properly - but then, just lately, I've concentrated on practising bass guitar when I've broken my nail. Hey if using just the index finger was good enough for James Jamerson....and I find I get a better bass tone without that fingernail! There's always a trade-off, isn't there!

:D :D :D

Vic

"Sometimes the beauty of music can help us all find strength to deal with all the curves life can throw us." (D. Hodge.)


   
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(@rparker)
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Topic starter  

Thanks for the additonal info, guys. I think what got me frustrated is that you get told that it is the way to hold a pick, not one of the options. Especially when I see footage of what I do now and it gets called the "wrong way" or "typical beginner's mistake".

David, I just tried your way just for kicks. Feels very stange indeed, but I bet you have not had a pick come loose.....ever.

Roy
"I wonder if a composer ever intentionally composed a piece that was physically impossible to play and stuck it away to be found years later after his death, knowing it would forever drive perfectionist musicians crazy." - George Carlin


   
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(@noteboat)
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I hold a pick with my thumb and finger almost parallel to each other (at least most of the time!). Most of the pros I know hold it the same way. But there's a lot of personal variation, sometimes among very good guitarists... watch Pat Metheny play - if I held picks like he does, I'd be flinging them across the room!

In general, I use a very loose pick grip, and control dynamics by tightening the grip. That puts more energy into the string.

Guitar teacher offering lessons in Plainfield IL


   
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(@kent_eh)
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The book and some research and some YouTube videos show the thumb going across and the index finger going across on the back side...sometimes at a slight angle down, sometimes not.

d'ya mean something like how Clapton holds his?

(man, it's hard to get a good picture from a video. He just won't keep his hand still long enough to get a clear shot.)

I wrapped a newspaper ’round my head
So I looked like I was deep


   
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(@gnease)
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David, I just tried your way just for kicks. Feels very stange indeed, but I bet you have not had a pick come loose.....ever.

that's a bet you'd lose. :wink:

I grip different picks in different ways, plus also change grips for playing style, sound and to counteract fatigue.

-=tension & release=-


   
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(@redbeard)
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Man Roy I am having the same anxiety right now.

I just had my 3rd lesson on Monday... my teacher showed me how he wanted me to hold a pick on the 1st lesson, but im struggling to get it how he suggested without my hand flipping out on me (i dont know if this is because im left handed so im having a harder time with my right hand, im not sure).

He has me curl my hand into a C (all 4 fingers). So hold your hand out in front of you, like you've got your fingers holding a beer bottle (some of you will have to to stretch really hard to imagine this =P). Now take the pick and lay it on your index finger so its perpendicular to your fingernail. Lastly, bring the pad of your thumb down on top of the center of the pick and grip gently with your thumb.

The way he explained it was... sure a lot of talented guitarists hold it other ways, but as best he can tell thats the most stable, comfortable way to hold it over long periods of time. He talked about a system of support where your pick is basically supported by four arches (your three sets of knuckles and your forearm -> thumb).

He has me resting the 2nd knuckle (towards the fingernail) of my right pinky in between the 1st and second strings to anchor my right hand in place.

So right now when I go to pluck strings 3-6 (were ignoring 1 and 2 until next week when hell show me how to move my right hand) I can only really pluck the low E with my pinky knuckle anchored, so what is happening is I am either twisting my wrist and keeping the plane that my pick makes the same, which causes the pick to rotate away from being squared with the strings, OR my pinky, ring and middle finger are staying in their anchored position and my thumb + index finger and pick are stretching out, so my wrist is still rotating but I am keeping the pick squared with the strings by elongating my index finger and thumb when my wrist rotates (does that make any sense? ).

Either way doesnt feel like its the right way... so I must be doing something wrong. I will keep looking on youtube, maybe ill have an epiphany.

"I just curse the sun so I can howl at the moon" ~QOTSA


   
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