Questions about teacher and lessons

Your teacher should ask you what you want to learn...

Every classes, my teacher is asking me what I want to do. He's giving me some choices and I choose. He's prepare for anything I would want to learn.

He's also talking about WHY should I learn this thing or another, so I can make a better choice for me and what I want to learn.

Now, you should talk with your teacher, or find another one. :wink:

First off, any working of teacher and student is a relationship, which means that it's "us" and not "me" or "he/she."

One thing many people don't do when starting lessons is sit down and chat with their possible mentor. Sometimes this is unavoidable and sometimes folks (teachers as well as students) just don't think to do it. After all, they are either excited about taking up guitar or about getting a new student. Who has time for questions? But, as in any relationship, communication is at the heart of whether or not it works.

From what you've written, it sounds as you and your teacher are on totally different paths - one that you're not comfortable or happy with and one that he's not explaining why he took you there. Good teachers structure their lessons around the student and the student's needs. As a teacher, nothing made this hit home more than one week ages ago when I found myself teaching the same song to eight different students. It became eight different lessons (not to mention eight totally different arrangements of the song!).

I'm not sure you can (or even want to) salvage this particular relationship, but if you want to try, you have to tell your teacher exactly what your frustrations are and what you want to be learning. He may not be able to get you there. Again, like relationships, not every teacher is the right teacher for every student.

It's great that you are learning and I'm sorry that, only my opinion please understand, that one of the things you are learning is to not end up with another teacher like this.

Take some time and think about what you want out of the guitar and then talk with other teachers (if you decide you can't talk with yours or, if after talking, you decide that you need someone new). Write out a list if you want. Somewhere out there is a teacher you can work with. It just may take a bit to find her or him.

Sorry this is long-winded as well, but sometimes communication can't all be written out as text messages! :wink:

Please keep us updated with what's going on and good luck with your continued learning on the guitar. You've got a long, fun journey ahead...

Peace

Thanks. I've given him a list and a cd I burned of some of the songs I like, as well as said what I want to learn from. When we work on something he tells me I'm getting it and to just keep at it. And I appreciate that feedback.

My lesson tonight was cancelled because he wound up in the hospital with gallstones. So for the next week or two I will be on my own, and able to catch up on the basic stuff. I've been working on my open chords and strumming patterns, and continue doing that.

I think I just need a break from lessons, and a chance to work on my own with the basic stuff. In 6 months of lessons, I've never missed one, and always come back the next week having learned something. So maybe I need a break to just play with what I've learned so far.

Oh I'm so confused! :cry:

:lol:

Wow, just wow! That was great. I appreciate that, because you saw right into it.
First off, any working of teacher and student is a relationship, which means that it's "us" and not "me" or "he/she."

One thing many people don't do when starting lessons is sit down and chat with their possible mentor. Sometimes this is unavoidable and sometimes folks (teachers as well as students) just don't think to do it. After all, they are either excited about taking up guitar or about getting a new student. Who has time for questions? But, as in any relationship, communication is at the heart of whether or not it works.

Here's where I think it went wrong... Day One. The studio owner/director does a "personal interview" with the student. It's even a mini-audition so he can gauge the level of experience (if any) and potential aptitude. OK, good. I played the intro to My Sweet Lord, and he recognized it. After 18 years, it came back to me. We chatted about my past lessons life and what I had been learning. He saw more in me at that point than I thought. When he introduced me to my teacher he said to him "This guy (me) knows stuff". So I think they took me for being more advanced than I am.
From what you've written, it sounds as you and your teacher are on totally different paths - one that you're not comfortable or happy with and one that he's not explaining why he took you there. Good teachers structure their lessons around the student and the student's needs.

This happened the first time I took lessons. The guy that taught me was about 22 at the time. Fantastic guitarist, but not getting me motivated. I really don't remember what I learned, except having worked on Still The Same forever, and not having gotten to the end of the song. I was doing melody with chords.

But this guy was also pushing me into soloing. I don't want to do that! Sure. I'll learn fills and melody lines, but for right now I want to learn rhythm. But I guess since everyone wants to be Slash or Steve Vai or Jimi Hendrix some teachers (the ones I get :roll: ) automatically start pushing it. Maybe I am wrong?
As a teacher, nothing made this hit home more than one week ages ago when I found myself teaching the same song to eight different students. It became eight different lessons (not to mention eight totally different arrangements of the song!).

I hear you, and I have my own misgivings about telling him I don't like a particular transcription or tab. OK, so I'm a wuss. :oops:
I'm not sure you can (or even want to) salvage this particular relationship, but if you want to try, you have to tell your teacher exactly what your frustrations are and what you want to be learning. He may not be able to get you there. Again, like relationships, not every teacher is the right teacher for every student.

I jumped. I admit it. No doubt about it. I took my 6-string and 12-string out of storage, restrung, tuned and polished them and started fidoodling around. Then I said, that's it I'm signing up for lessons. I didn't shop around.
It's great that you are learning and I'm sorry that, only my opinion please understand, that one of the things you are learning is to not end up with another teacher like this.

Don't apologize! You are right. But don't get me wrong, he's a great guitarist and a very nice guy... very mellow and laidback. In fact he says his teacher was a nazi and he didn't want to be like that. Well, there is a middle ground, I'm sure.
Take some time and think about what you want out of the guitar and then talk with other teachers (if you decide you can't talk with yours or, if after talking, you decide that you need someone new). Write out a list if you want. Somewhere out there is a teacher you can work with. It just may take a bit to find her or him.

My thoughts exactly. As I said in the last post, I think I need a break from the classroom and digest what I've learned so far, and then after a few months, go back to it. I've heard other people say they also need to take some time off periodically.
Sorry this is long-winded as well, but sometimes communication can't all be written out as text messages! :wink:

Please keep us updated with what's going on and good luck with your continued learning on the guitar. You've got a long, fun journey ahead...

Peace

Thanks again. I'm really encouraged with the few things I've learned even in the past few days. I'm not going anywhere! You weren't long-winded, but I was! :twisted:

Hi,

Brilliantly useful and to the point post from David Hodge. :)

As he so accurately puts it, there needs to be a continuing dialogue between teacher and student. The most difficult things for a student at the start of a musical relationship are that: a) You don't you know very much, but b) You also don't know exactly what it is that you don't know, and c) Even if you do have an idea, you know that you're inexperienced so you may well lack the confidence to state it firmly, if at all. :? So you really don't have any way of predicting the path ahead. This means that you can't even precisely answer the teacher question "Where do you want to go with your music?" even if they do ask it.

Neither the student or the teacher can say, in advance, what particular support, advice, structure or format will best suit each individual. The teacher is the more experienced of the two, and is the one being hired and paid for the job, so they should shoulder the larger responsibilty to pick what's happening, or not happening, and steer the ship accordingly. But they aren't clarevoyant - and it's also your musical journey not theirs. so it's up to both parties to keep giving the other feedback.

Good luck. Taking a break is very often a worthwhile thing anyway. There's no rule that says learning falls neatly into a once every week pattern. On the occasions that I've taken lessons, I've found that 5 in a row is usually my max. I nearly always want either more lessons more quickly, or the exact opposite - more time between them. :roll:

Chris

Thanks for those tips. It all makes sense. You're right that we don't know what we don't know.

I think a big part is how the personalities of student and teacher mesh. I said I get along fine with my teacher, he's a nice guy, laid back and all. But I'm kind of animated and can get "intense". It doesn't work when someone I am learning something from is too laid back. I'll ask for reasons why something is, and I'm not satisfied with "well, because... it just is..." No, no, no... I have to know what makes it tick or else it won't make sense. I need someone who has just as strong a personality as me. Strangely, I overcompensate with someone who is laid back and mellow, and will withdraw. In a word, I like someone who will give me a run for my money.

I have experienced these same frustrations and also found that it was "I" who had to fix the situation. I came to my teacher a raw beginner back in January and the first two weeks were ok, but I quickly felt that there was no plan or goals. I would even directly ask where are we going, and the answer was, “where do you want to go.” Now lots of people were quick to point out that learning the guitar was an a-la-carte kinda thing and could take many directions - and I agree - but what ever direction is choose, I want the steps to get there outlined so I can judge if I am making progress AND that my teacher is worth paying each week. I am not rich - guitar lessons are a budgeted item. (and yes, I want more structure than most people - I already know that.)

Solution: I had to develop the lesson plan to the point of making a list of exactly what I wanted to learn and in what order, and what my short-term goals were and long term. I walked in with a printed list for each individual lesson; “I want to spend 10 minutes on this, 10 minutes on this, etc.) Which is like what you all said: communication. I know my teacher is an intelligent guy, and talented on the guitar, he just didn't provide a structured lesson plan.

I really expected the beginner lessons to be like going to a software class. They would put a printed learning guide in front of you, you would work through it with your instructor, and at the end of the book you would have learned how to do the 25 specific things listed in the course advertisement. Having a teacher is exactly like working through a book you buy - except you have someone to answer your questions when you don't understand, and someone there to advise you when you are making errors that you are unaware are errors yet.

I discontinued lessons because of temporary income changes (commissioned sales) but I intend to return to paid lessons soon. (In the meantime I am working through the "easy" lesson material here.) When I do return in a couple of months, I will have a years worth of stuff in my hands on day one; two books, print outs from GN, Printed out guitar tabs, etc. - I'll put them in a stack and say here is EXACTLY what I want to accomplish. I don't have enough money for non-directional lessons. I want to get where I hope to be as quickly as possible.

I am probably a difficult student - eh?

Before you say it – yes I will try another teacher.

Just my 2 cents,
F/B in beautiful Wentzville, MO

More about me here: http://forums.guitarnoise.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=40137

I've kind of felt the same way for awhile and definitely about some of the other techers I have had. For the past 12 months or so I have been just concentrating on learning new songs and we rip through them at a good pace about one a week. He transcribes them from whatever version I bring in and for the most part I think he is right on. There were a couple occasions where he made mistakes that I caught and told him and then there are certain ways he's showed me how to play songs that other people have disagreed with. For the most part I don't have a problem with that because they are few and far between and he has the best hear of anyone I've met.

And the best thing is that when he transcribes a song he transcribes the actual song including picking/stumming patterns and not just something that's close.

I realize though that I have sacrificed in other areas to learn new songs...like my soloing skills but that's a decision I made and I really don't regret it.

Maybe you are expecting to much? I'm not sure guitar is always as straightforward as learn these x amount of skills then moive on to the next set. In alot of cases you have to move on even though you don't have the other skills totally mastered otherwise you'll never get anywhere.

I think you said you wanted to get your rhythm tight, but that's something that's going to develop the more you play. I don't think you're going to be able to do a few strumming exercises and in a few weeks you'll have gotten it all down.

If you think he transcribes something incorrectly I would ask him, I know I do all the time because soemtimes he writes stuff down that I don't hear in the record until I really really listen hard and for the most part I've been wrong and he's convinced me but on occasion he's made some mistakes. He once told me I was one of only two or three of his students that ever questioned his transcriptions.

I figure if I have the complete correct tab of a song even if I can't play it know (alot of the solos are like taht) I will get there someday and they are great references.

Solution: I had to develop the lesson plan to the point of making a list of exactly what I wanted to learn and in what order, and what my short-term goals were and long term. I walked in with a printed list for each individual lesson; “I want to spend 10 minutes on this, 10 minutes on this, etc.) Which is like what you all said: communication. I know my teacher is an intelligent guy, and talented on the guitar, he just didn't provide a structured lesson plan.

Not a bad idea of laying out the direction and goals. Instead of just rambling them off, and 4 months later forgetting them, writing them down and keeping them in a folder as a checklist could keep things on track. I know we have veered and deviated from something we were working on because it was a "... but not to change the subject, let's try... " moment. And before you know it you are three subjects away from what you were working on.

I had to develop the lesson plan to the point of making a list of exactly what I wanted to learn and in what order, and what my short-term goals were and long term. I walked in with a printed list for each individual lesson; “I want to spend 10 minutes on this, 10 minutes on this, etc.)

This is pretty much why I don't take group lessons anymore but take private lessons. This fixed schedule is too rigid. I do have certain things I go over in my lessons but there is also a lot of "paying it by ear" that goes on. If something I'm going over in my loosely scheduled items and there's a problem with something then we divert and work on that - even sometimes using up the whole lesson for that. What do you do if you need 20 minutes of something and your schedule says you've only got 10 minutes or the other way where you've booked 10 minutes for it and you get it in only a few minutes?

You don't learn everything at the same pace and sometimes some areas need more work and others less.

I realize though that I have sacrificed in other areas to learn new songs...like my soloing skills but that's a decision I made and I really don't regret it.

I kind of feel that way right now. I'm not going to abandon or turn up my nose at pentatonic scales or soloing or barre chords. I look at that as running when I am still trying to walk.
Maybe you are expecting to much? I'm not sure guitar is always as straightforward as learn these x amount of skills then moive on to the next set. In alot of cases you have to move on even though you don't have the other skills totally mastered otherwise you'll never get anywhere.

I think you siad you wanted to get your rhythm tight, but that's something that's going to develop the more you play. I don't think you're going to be able to do a few strumming exercises and in a few weeks you'll have gotten it all down.

I've thought about all that. You are right about not staying on one subject for long. And the only answer I can come up with is that I would practice all day if I were retired or in school. Someone elsewhere jumped on me for saying I couldn't practice as much as I want to, when he's a student and works and plays 3-4 hours a day. I wish I could. Then I'm sure I could catch up with everything we were doing. I'm sure I will go back to paid lessons in the near future. I think it's just a matter of hooking up with the right teacher.
If you think he transcribes something incorrectly I would ask him, I know I do all the time because soemtimes he writes stuff down that I don't hear in the record until I really really listen hard and for the most part I've been wrong and he's convinced me but on occasion he's made some mistakes. He once told me I was one of only two or three of his students that ever questioned hes transcriptions.

I figure if I have the complete correct tab of a song even if I can't play it know (alot of the solos are like taht) I will get there someday and they are great references.

A time or two I've looked at him and said "are you sure?" and he's said "oops, you're right" or he caught his transcription error. Then he plays what he hears, and sure enough, it's right. So that actually turned out to be the least of my concerns.

I'm collecting a bunch of tabs and chord sheets. Even at this point I can tell which ones look promising and which ones are "you've got to be kidding... you had the nerve to post that on the internet!?"

Min,

One thing that I have found which is probably not a good thing is that my teachers tabs for the most part are right on to every song we transcribe and he writes them in a guitar tab but also includes the note durations so it's pretty close to "real" notation in that you could play a decent version without having to have heard the song, but I have gotten real comfortable with the way he writes his tabs and I can't stand trying to learn songs from 1.) Internet tab..it's almost always wrong 2.) Even from official tab books they are all so busy that i get frustrated just looking at them. Since most songs repeat the choruses/verses etc he writes them once then writes a notation above them like a circle with a line through it then when that part comes up he just writes the circle with the line. The result is most songs are no more than one page long (excluding the solos) and it just seems so much easier to get my head around.

When I mentioned not spending time on soloing that was only partly true, what I should have said was that I haven't spend much time trying to improv solo's which is my ultimate goal but I am learning some of the solo's for the songs I learn. The reason I don't learn the solo's for all the songs is that some require mad shredding skills or else when I play with the guys we already have a lead guitarist that's been playing for 20+ and he's obviously way better than me but I am at the point where I can get the rhythm down to almost any song in a day or two max.

Wow, it sounds like your teacher is extremely talented, and that you work together really well. Lucky dawg! :wink:

Like I said before, even I see some tabs on the internet that are really awful. There is one, and it is THE only one, for I Hear You Knocking in which the guy says he plays it radically different. Well, why bother posting it? So I guess I'm saying that it's a gift to be able to transcribe something properly. OK, I'm babbling now. :lol:

Min,

Your right, my teacher's best skill is his ears. But I have become way to accustom to his tabs and I hate almost all others. That's not a good thing but when I see a tab that's liek 10 pages long it kind of still intimidates me yet he'll tab it out in a couple pages and it will be the exact transcription of the song and suddenly what looked extremely difficult looks pretty easy