Ive been at it for about 9 months I guess . . . and I still cant do very simple things properly.
I think I spent my first 18 months or so not doing the simple things properly and needed to be shown how to practice at very slow speeds and build up. I had rushed on learning to form lots of chords but never mastering them. It was a bit of a blow to my confidence to have to go right back to the start in terms of chord changes but I soon found myself moving forward.
The reality for me is that I have to work hard and I'm way behind what others have achieved in less time but the 1 thing I do no is that I have improved and thats all I need to do at my own pace.
D chord:
Index finger (1st finger) on 3rd (G) string at second fret = A
Middle finger (2nd finger) on 1st (high E) string at second fret = F# = Gb
Ring finger (3rd finger) on 2nd (B) string at third fret = D
Correct me if I'm wrong
This is probably the conventional way to do it, but I have a different fingering that works well for the A-to-D chord change.
A:
Middle: 4th string, 2nd fret
Ring: 3rd string, 2nd fret
Pinky: 2nd string, 2nd fret
D:
Middle: 1st string, 2nd fret
Ring: 3rd string, 2nd fret
Pinky: 2nd string, 3rd fret
This allows me to use the unmoving Ring finger as a pivot, and all I have to do is slip the pinky over a fret, and bring the middle finger down 3 strings on the same fret. (And because I don't use the index finger at all, I can barre this same shape change up and down the fretboard to make any I - IV chord progression).
I've never played Sundown in my life, but I was able to make reasonable changes in the progression Minotaur listed using my index finger only to play the barred B7.
BTW, I've been playing the same amount of time as TheRedd, and I've experienced some of the exact same frustrations, although my bugbear is the G chord. ('Sokay, though, I usually just substitute the barred E + 3 frets, and move on.) I've started doing the practice routine mentioned above (practice specific chord changes for 1 minute at a time, every time I pick up the guitar), and it seems to have helped some.
Does anyone here play D by barring the first 3 strings on the 2nd fret with the first finger and using the ring finger on the 2nd string 3rd fret? I've tried it a few times, and I feel like it might have the potential to be a little more comfortable/faster for me, but I try to stick to the standard chord shapes as much as possible, so I haven't really invested any time in it....
I have been known to bar the second fret top three strings on occasion for a D chord, but I use my middle finger to hit the second string third fret.
Does anyone here play D by barring the first 3 strings on the 2nd fret with the first finger and using the ring finger on the 2nd string 3rd fret? I've tried it a few times, and I feel like it might have the potential to be a little more comfortable/faster for me, but I try to stick to the standard chord shapes as much as possible, so I haven't really invested any time in it....
Yes - I do! I do this exclusively (Except for Noweigan Wood). Yes - this made my chord changes faster. When I took lessons years ago I asked the teacher if this was OK and he said, "that's fine - it's the way JAZZ Players do it".
Now, instead of barring I'm trying to do the regular way and it's very difficult to untrain the fingers...
I think it's holding me back somewhat, when I try to move to regular BARRE chords (E or A shaped).
Also, when I watch my friend play, and he's playing a D, C and G song, and he uses the pinky for the G chord it's a
minimum of effort and fast. When I play, my hand is flopping around back and forth, I can do it, but it's maximum
effort - if that makes sense.
I say, try your best to stick to the standard fingering for "D".
Are there more experienced players out there with opinions or comments? I'd like to hear them.
Bob Jessie
Does anyone here play D by barring the first 3 strings on the 2nd fret with the first finger and using the ring finger on the 2nd string 3rd fret? I've tried it a few times, and I feel like it might have the potential to be a little more comfortable/faster for me, but I try to stick to the standard chord shapes as much as possible, so I haven't really invested any time in it....
Yes, a LOT. In fact, what you're talking about here is really just playing a C chord with a partial barre on the second fret. I usually play the full C shape (barreing strings 1-3 on the 2nd fret, middle finger string 2, fret 3; index finger string 4, fret 4; pinky string 5, fret 5). Sometimes I do a full barre to include the 6th string, but the partial barre is easier and cleaner-sounding.
I understand your anger. I've been at this almost 7 years. I DO remember the anger I felt in trying to do chord changes. I find the D and A to be tough chords to place. Others on the board would say "what about barre chords."
Anyway, are you in a rush to get these two chords down and change easily between both? I give you +1 in taking an hour switching between them. Yet I suggest only doing that, at most, 5 minutes a day. Why?
Because your hands learn more easily that way. Five minutes a day and stop it. I know you don't belive me, but that's the way to do it.
Post later on your progress.
"Nothing...can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts."
This might help. I thought the 2 books I bought were pretty good. Bob Jessie
I understand your anger. I've been at this almost 7 years. I DO remember the anger I felt in trying to do chord changes. I find the D and A to be tough chords to place. Others on the board would say "what about barre chords."
Anyway, are you in a rush to get these two chords down and change easily between both? I give you +1 in taking an hour switching between them. Yet I suggest only doing that, at most, 5 minutes a day. Why?
Because your hands learn more easily that way. Five minutes a day and stop it. I know you don't belive me, but that's the way to do it.
Post later on your progress.
I wouldnt really call it "anger"; but Im not sure what a better word would be . . . especially when I go from THAT night, where I couldnt even manage one clean chord change, to last night . . . when I could do the same thing effortlessly. When I get done with this, Ill pick up my guitar . . . and the odds are 50/50 if I can play it right tonight. Thats what really gets to me, is the inconsistency.
As for working on it for an hour . . . are you familiar with ADHD? Those of us who have it, are gifted with something called "hyperfocus". While we usually have trouble paying attention to ANYTHING for very long, sometimes when something really draws our interest, we get so focused on it that the rest of the world ceases to exist. Thats the only reason I was at it for an hour, normally the tendonitis would have stopped me much sooner 8)
Those of us who have it, are gifted with something called "hyperfocus".
Do you find yourself mentally and maybe even physically exhausted after a session of this incredible focus? I find it very stressful to focus on something so hard and for so long. I don't even read one book at a time. Right now it's two books, one magazine and a small stack of music books to peruse when all else fails. Same goes for my guitar playing. I don't work on one song at a time. I work on one list of songs at a time.
Roy
"I wonder if a composer ever intentionally composed a piece that was physically impossible to play and stuck it away to be found years later after his death, knowing it would forever drive perfectionist musicians crazy." - George Carlin
I had a friend a while back that I used to play in chess tournaments with all the time that had ADHD, and so did his brother. He is now an International Master I believe, and when I knew him, his brother was 7 or 8, and couldn't hold attention to anything, but if you but him in front of a chess board, he would sit there for hours and do nothing but play chess either analyzing games in books, or going through problems or playing against other people, it was amazing to me.
In Space, no one can hear me sing!
When I get done with this, Ill pick up my guitar . . . and the odds are 50/50 if I can play it right tonight. Thats what really gets to me, is the inconsistency.
This used to be a big peeve of mine, the seeming inconsistency of what would happen when I picked up the guitar. I'm a logical person, and in my usual studies (computers, electronics) I either know something or I don't.
After a year or so of learning guitar, I came to accept this as the normal state of affairs, and instead of looking at it like I'm either "succeeding today" or "failing today", I look at it in terms of Always, Sometimes, and Never:
- There are some things I can ALWAYS do consistently. If you ask me to pick up the guitar and play an E minor, that will always work. Even if I'm half awake and using someone else's guitar.
- There are other things I can SOMETIMES do. If you ask me to do a clean chord change from D to B minor, it will work maybe half of the time. If I'm "in the zone" I can do it over and over, and other days I can't do it at all.
- And there are a million things I can NEVER do, like play "Cliffs of Dover" flawlessly.
The biggest sense of accomplishment I get is when I can move something from Never to Sometimes, or from Sometimes to Always. The more I practice the more things move into the Always column. The things that move to Always are usually things I'm bored of, since I've moved onto a new item from the Never column, but as long as I'm adding to the Always list I'm happy.
P. S. I have some form of (undiagnosed) ADHD, and I have to agree that short practice sessions are better. I practice the same song or the same technique for 4 solid hours sometimes, and in retrospect I always find that the first half hour was productive, and the last 3 and a half were just a long exercise in frustration and sore fingers...
mmoncur: I like the fact that your three groupings still all end in binary form. Even the "Sometimes" one in the middle returns a 1 or a 0 at any given instance. You are assimilated. For argument's sake, let's say that a chord switch of 1/10th a second or better returns a 1 (or True, for those keeping score at home) Anything short of that is a 0 (or False) Technically, if you do this chord switch in 1/9th a second, it's a 0. Same goes for someone who does this same chord switch in 3 seconds. Still a 0. Technically, you two are the same skill level.
I had to eventually come to grips with the fact that there are varying degrees of success. Ranging from "yeah, you did play that song's chords" to "played entire song in proper time" to "hey, that sounds really good, I want your baby". Started making things a lot less frustrating. So Bob Dylan's "Lay Lady Lay" and "Knocking On Heaven's Door" are both in my arsenal, sometimes the first one ain't quite up to speed with the second one. It'll get there.
Roy
"I wonder if a composer ever intentionally composed a piece that was physically impossible to play and stuck it away to be found years later after his death, knowing it would forever drive perfectionist musicians crazy." - George Carlin
Those of us who have it, are gifted with something called "hyperfocus".
Do you find yourself mentally and maybe even physically exhausted after a session of this incredible focus? I find it very stressful to focus on something so hard and for so long. I don't even read one book at a time. Right now it's two books, one magazine and a small stack of music books to peruse when all else fails. Same goes for my guitar playing. I don't work on one song at a time. I work on one list of songs at a time.
Exhausted? No. Most of the time the feeling is "holy crap!" when I realise how long Ive been working on whatever. :lol:
mmoncur: I like the fact that your three groupings still all end in binary form. Even the "Sometimes" one in the middle returns a 1 or a 0 at any given instance. You are assimilated.
Well, I was going to go into detail about "Sometimes" actually being a fuzzy concept that I think of in terms of odds, i.e. I have a 50% chance of getting it right, then 70%, then 90%, then "Always". But I thought that would be a bit too strange.
Also, Resistance is Futile.
