Scales

Be ready for a deluge of replies.

Can you play the minor pentatonic in all five shapes and at all positions up the neck? And can you switch between them smoothly?

A :-)

There's really only one answer to that.

Learn the major scale. It's the foundation of all music. Everything else is just variations.

I can only agree with helgi.

Learn the major scale.

Hi everyone. Could i ask a question about scales please: I have learnt the Minor Pentatonic Scale and i am unsure which scale would be the best to learn next. Ideally i want to able to switch between them when i get better. Any suggestions?

Rather than learning each scale on its own; go through different modes and learn how they work in relation to each other; they are all related, and it would be more beneficial in the long run.

Start here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_mode

I have to disagree with that on two counts...

The modes aren't all related. That's a theory construct that dates to the 1500s, but has no practical application (and it's only guitar players that argue that it does)

In the long run, the major scale will be more useful than any other, even if you never actually use it. All scales are analyzed in contrast to the major scale, all chords are constructed on formulas against a major scale, etc.

I'd second, or third, or whatever, the vote for major scales.

The pentatonic minor is the most used in the forms of music I play, and was the first I learned.

But learning the majors, though I play them less in solos and songs, really helped set the foundation for understanding music, chord theory...all that stuff I'm struggling with- without knowing how the major scale works I couldn't even struggle with it.

Best,
Ande

PS- Modes are hard. I'd really get majors, minors, and pentatonics down cold. Then, when you hit a point in playing where modes really matter, you'll be ready. BUt a lot of novices, especially metal novices, get distracted with modes when they aren't really useful to a beginner.

I have to disagree with that on two counts...

The modes aren't all related. That's a theory construct that dates to the 1500s, but has no practical application (and it's only guitar players that argue that it does)

In the long run, the major scale will be more useful than any other, even if you never actually use it. All scales are analyzed in contrast to the major scale, all chords are constructed on formulas against a major scale, etc.

The Major scale is the first mode, minor being the sixth, if the OP is playing or composing music knowing his modes would be much more beneficial than learning your Major scale.

For example if i wanted to jam and asked you to play a I IV V in E Major you would know what mode would work with each chord transition and easily be able to move back and forth.

PS- Modes are hard. I'd really get majors, minors, and pentatonics down cold. Then, when you hit a point in playing where modes really matter, you'll be ready. BUt a lot of novices, especially metal novices, get distracted with modes when they aren't really useful to a beginner.

How are modes hard? There are Seven of them, one of them is the Major scale, another is the minor scale.

I find teaching individual scales to be pointless, if you don't understand how a scale coordinates in specific key how can you improvise or compose in that key?

In about 20 years of serious piano study, I was never required to learn fingerings for modes. I've never taken guitar lessons, so I don't know where all this mode-lust is coming from. Is the term "mode" commonly used in guitar pedagogy for something other than the ancient "scales"?

In about 20 years of serious piano study, I was never required to learn fingerings for modes. I've never taken guitar lessons, so I don't know where all this mode-lust is coming from. Is the term "mode" commonly used in guitar pedagogy for something other than the ancient "scales"?
I learned modes in the second day of my music theory lessons at a community college; right after i learned the circle of fifths. Music theory is all intertwined, It makes more sense to learn the inner workings of it (at least on a basic level), rather than small pieces here and there, because in the long run that will only leave you more confused.

In about 20 years of serious piano study, I was never required to learn fingerings for modes. I've never taken guitar lessons, so I don't know where all this mode-lust is coming from. Is the term "mode" commonly used in guitar pedagogy for something other than the ancient "scales"?

Nope.

I learned modes in the second day of my music theory lessons at a community college; right after i learned the circle of fifths.

As did I. In music theory lessons. Later in music history & musicology. They were never a factor for me as a performer.
Music theory is all intertwined, It makes more sense to learn the inner workings of it (at least on a basic level), rather than small pieces here and there, because in the long run that will only leave you more confused.

In any conservatory-level music curriculum you'll get the inner workings at the same time you're learning your instrument. That is as it should be. If the OP is in that kind of program, that is excellent. The Wikipedia article on modes however is enough to make a beginner give up guitar & take up the harmonica.

And we are in "Beginner's Q&A Forum." I doublechecked. 8)

I learned modes in the second day of my music theory lessons at a community college; right after i learned the circle of fifths.

As did I. In music theory lessons. Later in music history & musicology. They were never a factor for me as a performer.
Music theory is all intertwined, It makes more sense to learn the inner workings of it (at least on a basic level), rather than small pieces here and there, because in the long run that will only leave you more confused.

In any conservatory-level music curriculum you'll get the inner workings at the same time you're learning your instrument. That is as it should be. If the OP is in that kind of program, that is excellent. The Wikipedia article on modes however is enough to make a beginner give up guitar & take up the harmonica.

And we are in "Beginner's Q&A Forum." I doublechecked. 8)

Good points, my only thinking is it's a lot hard to learn small pieces of theory here and there. Guitar only made sense to me when i got the big picture of how everything works in relation to one another.

If you don't want to know the theory behind the scales / modes go here
http://www.all-guitar-chords.com/
and try some different scales.

...it's a lot hard to learn small pieces of theory here and there.

Couldn't agree more.