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What Chords Do I Have?

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(@noteboat)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 4921
 

It's a valid point, Fretsource - but I still think the use of 'sus' is legitimate because of the historical connection to quartal harmonies in jazz.

Quartal harmonies are so new in classical music (1910-ish) we haven't really developed an encompassing harmonic theory... quartal harmony in jazz gets rolling even later, with Shorter, Corea, etc.

We probably need a different naming system for them. Most of the head charts for the quartal stuff in jazz will name chords like C7sus - in tertian harmony that implies C-F-G-Bb... but in quartal harmony the G isn't present (since two stacked perfect fourths make C-F-Bb).

Since many jazz voicings will drop the fifth anyway, this isn't really an issue for those tunes. And once we have a better understanding of how composers are using harmonic motion in practice, the theory will follow.

But anyway... since the use of 'sus' really grew up around trying to express those quartal harmonies, if you're going to use Csus7 to express C-F-Bb it makes sense to extend the same label back to tertian harmony.

Extending the same label further to 'sus2' ignores the development. If 'sus' (as in sus4) is understood to be quartal, then 'sus2' could just as easily represent a diatonic cluster!

Guitar teacher offering lessons in Plainfield IL


   
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(@kingpatzer)
Noble Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 2171
 

I think all of us theory wonks are in agreement that "suspension" is at least a questionable name for quartile harmonic structures and that a better term is needed to not only avoid confussion but to stem the trend of using "susX" where "x" is any tone to be used instead of the 3rd . ..

If we don't come up with a new name, one day we'll see something like CSus6b5 instead of a voicing of Am7 with no 5th.

"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." -- HST


   
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(@misanthrope)
Noble Member
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 2261
 

Where would you start with a new name?

...speaking of which, ever heard of the dangers of Dihydrogen Monoxide?

* Death due to accidental inhalation of DHMO, even in small quantities.
* Prolonged exposure to solid DHMO causes severe tissue damage.
* Excessive ingestion produces a number of unpleasant though not typically life-threatening side-effects.
* DHMO is a major component of acid rain.
* Gaseous DHMO can cause severe burns.
* Contributes to soil erosion.
* Leads to corrosion and oxidation of many metals.
* Contamination of electrical systems often causes short-circuits.
* Exposure decreases effectiveness of automobile brakes.
* Found in biopsies of pre-cancerous tumors and lesions.
* Given to vicious dogs involved in recent deadly attacks.
* Often associated with killer cyclones in the U.S. Midwest and elsewhere, and in hurricanes including deadly storms in Florida, New Orleans and other areas of the southeastern U.S.
* Thermal variations in DHMO are a suspected contributor to the El Nino weather effect.

Terrible stuff! :wink:

ChordsAndScales.co.uk - Guitar Chord/Scale Finder/Viewer


   
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(@noteboat)
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Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 4921
 

If we don't come up with a new name, one day we'll see something like CSus6b5 instead of a voicing of Am7 with no 5th.

Csus6(b5)=C-A-Gb(F#)... woohoo!!!! That's a better name than F#º cuz it tells me where ALL the notes are!!!

:)

Guitar teacher offering lessons in Plainfield IL


   
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(@kingpatzer)
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Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 2171
 

If we don't come up with a new name, one day we'll see something like CSus6b5 instead of a voicing of Am7 with no 5th.

Csus6(b5)=C-A-Gb(F#)... woohoo!!!! That's a better name than F#º cuz it tells me where ALL the notes are!!!

:)

Ugh, hoisted on my own pitard! I tossed this example out thinking about a common fingering I use instead of what tones I was playing ...

See the problems thinking in terms of shapes cause!! :)

"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." -- HST


   
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(@misanthrope)
Noble Member
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 2261
 

...'hoist' in that context is already past tense, it doesn't need the 'ed' ending :wink:

ChordsAndScales.co.uk - Guitar Chord/Scale Finder/Viewer


   
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(@kingpatzer)
Noble Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 2171
 

...'hoist' in that context is already past tense, it doesn't need the 'ed' ending :wink:

Yes, but I don't claim to know no grammar :)

"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." -- HST


   
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(@fretsource)
Prominent Member
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 973
 

...'hoist' in that context is already past tense, it doesn't need the 'ed' ending :wink:

'Hoist' can be past tense? No way! :shock: That's even worse than sus 6 b5. :lol:


   
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(@chris-c)
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Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 3454
 

...speaking of which, ever heard of the dangers of Dihydrogen Monoxide?

Terrible stuff! :wink:

* It can do unspeakable things to your beer too..... :shock:


   
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(@vic-lewis-vl)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 10264
 

Ah, but there's a similar compound, Hydrogen Hydroxide which is also found in beer, which can also give rise to nausea, occipital pain and abdominal stress after over-indulgence.....

:D :D :D

Vic

"Sometimes the beauty of music can help us all find strength to deal with all the curves life can throw us." (D. Hodge.)


   
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(@chris-c)
Famed Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 3454
 

Interesting point Vic...

I've been blaming the occipital pain on brain strain caused by trying to follow dissertations on music theory. :? You're not telling me it might be caused by the 'stress relief medicine' I've been administering are you... :shock:

Maybe I need to adjust the dosage...

Cheers, Chris


   
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(@ignar-hillstrom)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 5349
 

Chirs: I've heared those stress relief medicines can cause headaches, but only if you don't eat enough fat food like chips. Atleast, that's what my doctor told me...


   
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(@chris-c)
Famed Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 3454
 

Hmmm...chips..... sigh.... banished round here now.... Maybe I need to try your doctor, Arjen. :D


   
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(@ricochet)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 7833
 

I think Vic means C2H5OH.

"A cheerful heart is good medicine."


   
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(@vic-lewis-vl)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 10264
 

So let me get this straight....

A major chord is the 1,3 ,5 of that scale
A minor chord is the 1, b3, 5...so a minor7th would be 1,b3,5,b7...
A 7th chord is the 1, 3, 5, b7...whereas a major 7th would be 1,3,5,7...
A 9th chord would be 1,3,5,b7,9 whereas an add9 chord would be..1,3,5,9

A sus4th is the 1,4,5 of a chord, and is acceptable because it's been recognised as such a long time...but a sus2 is merely an inversion of a different sus4, ie Dsus2 uses the notes D E and A, whereas Asus4 uses the notes A D and E...

Sus4ths are guitar chords, yes? Other musicians don't recognise them?

There's a chord I use a lot in open G tuning....

D G D G B D
x 0 2 0 1 0....

which I use up and down the fretboard....I've seen it in quite a lot of Stones tabs, usually referred to as a Gsus4/6....I've got the 1st 4th 5th and 6th notes of the G scale.....

Is there another way to refer to this? Isn't it a Cadd9? I've got the 1st - C, 3rd-E 5th-G and 9th-D....notes of the Cscale...

I am more confused than ever now....!!!!

:D :D :D

Vic

"Sometimes the beauty of music can help us all find strength to deal with all the curves life can throw us." (D. Hodge.)


   
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