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What do u mean by the different scales?

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(@kenllh)
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Joined: 17 years ago
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Hi there,

Could someone explain to me what do u mean by the Harmonic scales, Melodic scales, Chromatic scales, Pentonic scales?

I mean... i understand roughly the minor and major scale; its a group of notes like do, re, mi fa, so, la, ti, do (1 octave) and so on...

But what do u mean by the term Harmonic, Melodic, Chromatic, and Pentonic?

Rgds,
Kenny

I fell in luv wit my G440C Takamine~ :)


   
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(@noteboat)
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Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 4921
 

Well, they each have a different arrangement of intervals.

The "do-re-mi" set uses syllables called solfege. Each syllable represents a single tone, either a specific note (called the "fixed Do" system, where Do = C) or a relation to the beginning of the scale (called "moveable Do", where Do = C in the key of C, but D in the key of D, etc.)

Anyway, you need 12 frets on the guitar to equal an octave - to reach the next "Do" note. So there are really 12 syllables:

1. Do
2. Di (Do sharp) or Ra (Re flat)
3. Re
4. Ri (Re sharp) or Me (Mi flat - pronounced "may")
5. Mi
6. Fa
7. Fi (Fa sharp) or Se (Sol flat)
8. Sol
9. Si (Sol sharp) or Le (La flat)
10. La
11. Li (La sharp) or Te (Ti flat)
12. Ti

The next one will be Do again, 12 frets above the first Do.

So other scales just use different syllables - the harmonic minor would be Do-Re-Me-Fa-Sol-Le-Ti-Do. That gives them different spaces (called intervals) between each note.

Guitar teacher offering lessons in Plainfield IL


   
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(@voidious)
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Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 151
 

First off, there are a lot of very good articles on scales on this site - if you go to the main page (guitarnoise.com) >> Lessons >> Scales and Modes, you will get a lot of info. Actually I've only begun really exploring those lessons, myself.

A major scale is a series of notes that follows the pattern of half steps like this: base note ("tonic" I think?), 2 half-steps (frets) up, 2, 1, 2, 2, 2, 1 (same note as base, one octave up). The easiest to remember is a C major scale because it has no sharps or flats: C, D, E, F, G, A, B. A natural minor is 2, 1, 2, 2, 1, 2, 2; the melodic minor is a variation that goes 2, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 1 (used for melodies, unsurprisingly); the harmonic minor is a variation that goes 2, 1, 2, 2, 1, 3, 1 (used more often for chords). A pentatonic scale has only 5 notes instead of 7. I think a chromatic scale is all 12 notes, every half-step.

The notes in a scale are called like first, second, third....seventh, octave. Compared to a major scale, the natural minor has a flat 3rd, 6th, and 7th. You'll notice the natural minor is the same pattern as the major scale if you started at the 6th instead of the 1st; a bunch of other scales are the same way but starting at a different point.

There are lots of other scales and I'm still learning a lot of this myself, but hopefully my basic knowledge of music theory is of some help to you. =)

-- Voidious


   
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(@kenllh)
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Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 58
Topic starter  

Hiya,

Thanks for the basic music knowledge, i am getting some idea here....

Will have a look at the lessons from guitarnoise.

I happen to chance upon this website:justinguitar.com on the minor pentatonic scale. He teaches them on U tube. Very interesting, as he also teaches how to improvise on them..

Cheers

I fell in luv wit my G440C Takamine~ :)


   
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(@yournightmare)
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Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 108
 

I happen to chance upon this website:justinguitar.com on the minor pentatonic scale. He teaches them on U tube. Very interesting, as he also teaches how to improvise on them..

CheersI like Justin Sandercoe's lessons as well.


   
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(@kenllh)
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Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 58
Topic starter  

First off, there are a lot of very good articles on scales on this site - if you go to the main page (guitarnoise.com) >> Lessons >> Scales and Modes, you will get a lot of info. Actually I've only begun really exploring those lessons, myself.

A major scale is a series of notes that follows the pattern of half steps like this: base note ("tonic" I think?), 2 half-steps (frets) up, 2, 1, 2, 2, 2, 1 (same note as base, one octave up). The easiest to remember is a C major scale because it has no sharps or flats: C, D, E, F, G, A, B. A natural minor is 2, 1, 2, 2, 1, 2, 2; the melodic minor is a variation that goes 2, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 1 (used for melodies, unsurprisingly); the harmonic minor is a variation that goes 2, 1, 2, 2, 1, 3, 1 (used more often for chords). A pentatonic scale has only 5 notes instead of 7. I think a chromatic scale is all 12 notes, every half-step.

The notes in a scale are called like first, second, third....seventh, octave. Compared to a major scale, the natural minor has a flat 3rd, 6th, and 7th. You'll notice the natural minor is the same pattern as the major scale if you started at the 6th instead of the 1st; a bunch of other scales are the same way but starting at a different point.

There are lots of other scales and I'm still learning a lot of this myself, but hopefully my basic knowledge of music theory is of some help to you. =)
Hmm....if a pentatonic only has 5 notes, does it mean that after the fifth will be equals to an octave?

I fell in luv wit my G440C Takamine~ :)


   
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(@noteboat)
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Joined: 21 years ago
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Yes. After five notes you reach the octave.

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(@kenllh)
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Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 58
Topic starter  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ls_8xIjBzM

In the above link, why does justin call this a G major scale 3 notes per string?

I thought all G Major Scale In 5 Positions doesnt tally with what he freted? Are the fingerings wrong?

rgds

I fell in luv wit my G440C Takamine~ :)


   
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(@voidious)
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Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 151
 

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean by "G Major Scale in 5 positions". But he is definitely playing a G major scale correctly there; the 8th note he plays is the G one octave up, but he just keeps going from there onto the next iteration of the scale. He's mainly showing a specific fingering of the scale here, though - keep in mind there are many ways to play a given scale.

Does that answer your question?

-- Voidious


   
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(@kenllh)
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Joined: 17 years ago
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Topic starter  

Hi,

thanks for your prompt reply...

I am still lost... as for the image below, i thought it should be played that way? do, re mi fa so la ti do and so on... for G scale 1st position?

Position 1

Is he playing from 6th string down, 3 notes per strings
6th string : 3, 5, 7 fret
5th string : 3, 5, 7 fret
4th string : 4, 5, 7 fret
3rd string : 4, 5, 7 fret
2nd string : 5, 7, 8 fret
1st string : 5, 7, 8 fret

Because from this link, http://www.guitar-lessons.com/lessons/majscale/majscale.html

there are 5 positions only for the G major scale.

Rgds...

I fell in luv wit my G440C Takamine~ :)


   
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(@voidious)
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Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 151
 

Ah, now I see what you meant by "positions". (Sorry, I'm kind of a beginner myself.) Those positions you posted are probably how I would generally play a G major scale, since they don't require much extra stretching (like 1 finger across 2 frets).

But you can move some notes around to different strings if you want. If you look at that image you posted and compare it to what he's playing in that video, he's just playing some notes (like the 3rd one, the 6th one) on the lower string and a few frets up, which ends up as the same note. He's playing the same notes, for sure, just fingering it a specific way for speed.

-- Voidious


   
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(@kenllh)
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Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 58
Topic starter  

Ok,

now i get it.... so what u meant is that there are many ways to play a G scale right? you can play from just the 6th string itself etc etc...not jus the 5 common positions right?

Thanks!!!

I fell in luv wit my G440C Takamine~ :)


   
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(@chris-c)
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Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 3454
 

Hi,

Scales are a way of picking smaller teams from the full set of 12 notes in the Chromatic scale. This is done because if you use all 12 it tends to get messy. It can be done, but picking smaller teams means that you can more reliably and easily make music that will work together in ways that are predictable and well known. This applies to both note by note lead lines and to chords. Or to put it another way, melodies and harmonies.

There are set formulae for working out scales (and many of them turn out to be variations on the same sequence - just starting at a different point in the order). But when you have figured out where they are it's not compulsory to play them in precise positions or orders. And once you start writing songs you're not limited to using only the notes in a particular scale either. They are very useful tools but they're not rigid rules. Ain't no Scale Police gunna run you in for messin' wid' da notes... :D

People often practice scales by marching up and down a section of the fretboard like so many soldiers on parade. Fine for discipline (finger strength and accuracy, learning wheres the notes are etc). But the real business of soldiers isn't drill it's fighting, and battles don't play out in line order. Neither does music. Just look on scales as training for a much bigger, freer and altogether wilder event. :wink:

Good luck with it all,

Chris


   
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(@kenllh)
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Joined: 17 years ago
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Topic starter  

Thank you Mr Chris!

I fell in luv wit my G440C Takamine~ :)


   
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(@wes-inman)
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Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 5582
 

Scales are directly related to the chords in a key. Each key has 3 Major and 3 Minor Relative chords. In the key of C you have C, F, and G (the Major chords) and Am, Dm, and Em (the Minor Relative chords). These chords are made of the very notes of the C Major scale.

C Major scale= C, D, E, F, G, A, B, and back to C (octave).

Now the notes that make up the Major and Relative Minor chords in this particular key.

C= C, E, G
F= F, A, C
G= G, B, D
Am= A, C, E
Dm= D, F, A
Em= E, G, B

Now notice that all of these chords are made of the very same notes found in the C Major scale.

So let's say you play an old song in the key of C. Take the old 50's progression C, Am, F, and G. Play those chords and you will recognize this famous progression from the 50's.

Now you want to play a solo over this progression. The C Major scale will work because all of the notes match up with the notes that make the 3 Major and 3 Minor Relative chords in this particular key.

Now there are exceptions to this. You can flat some notes on purpose and this is exactly what Blues players do. They will flat the 3rd and 7th tones especially. In C the 3rd is E, so flatted would be Eb. The 7th is B, so flatted would be Bb.

So now you would have C, D, Eb, F, G, A, Bb, and C (I flatted the 3rd and 7th tones).

These two flatted tones will have a big impact on your solo. If you play the straight Major scale notes the solo will tend to sound very happy. If you play the flatted notes it will sound slightly melancholy or blue. This is the Blues.

But a scale is like the alphabet. We learn the alphabet A to Z in order. But we don't use the alphabet that way. We use the letters in many various orders to spell different words. A musical scale is the same. You learn it in order, but you do not play it that way (although you can). No, you mix the order up anyway you want to create a beautiful melody.

But the notes of a scale must generally match up with the chords you are playing over.

If you are playing over the C chord, play lots of C, E, and G notes and the listener will hear the C chord. When the progression goes to Am, then play A, C, and E and the listener will hear this minor chord. You can play any notes you want in any order, but it is good to play choice notes over chords to lead the listener's ear.

Hope that wasn't confusing.

Wes

If you know something better than Rock and Roll, I'd like to hear it - Jerry Lee Lewis


   
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