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what should I be being taught???

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(@mushin)
Eminent Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 30
Topic starter  

Hi all,

this sort of follows on from Chris's thread but gets more into the nitty gritty of a particular situation.....

I have been learning to play since earlier this year. Pretty much self taught (I don't actually like referring to it as self taught as all the subject matter is from others) with a few DVDs, Books and Websites (especially this one).

Recently I returned from an overseas assignment and started up lessons with my daughter's teacher. He had been teaching her for 1 month prior to me coming on board. I have my 3rd lesson with him tomorrow.

My question to you all is what should I be being taught?

At this stage, we are at the " what do you want to learn?" stage. I appreciate that this stage is important to get those who need it interested and hooked on guitar....it works a treat for my daughter...but for me I am looking for more definitive stuff. I have been going there with whatever I am currently working on and ask specific questions as to strumming, listening etc. (mind you this has only been 2 lessons). I am used to a lot more structure to any learning I do so jumping from riff to riff etc doesnt really do much for me. I am at the stage where I want to be learning a complete song, but I suppose I don't want him to teach ne the song, I want him to equip me with the tools to play.

At this stage I am yet to see a structure for the subject matter be put forward- I have watched my daughters lessons and mine and it has been " what do you want to cover today? give me the CD and we will tab it out and start to go over it." At the end there is a recap. These are 30 min lessons.

Is this normal? should I be asking for more? something different? Its a little difficult to ask for something you don't know about.....maybe I need a teacher more experienced with teaching adults (this guy is in his early to mid 20's- not sure how much teaching of adults he has done)?

Any suggestions welcome....

thanks

Mick


   
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(@noteboat)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 4921
 

My two cents worth...

Is it normal? Yes. A private teacher's income depends on retaining students - so if a student asks for something, odds are really good that's what we'll teach. First lessons (for someone who already plays) are always awkward; the teacher is trying to assess where you are, what you know, what you like. So now it's lesson two and the same thing happens - if you were my student it would mean I hadn't figured out an approach for you yet.

Your daughter has had half dozen lessons, and it's still the same approach. That happens too, sometimes.... maybe he's figured it to be the right approach for her, or maybe she's not really applying herself - so he's trying to find a way to catch her interest.

Should you be asking for more? Absolutely. You're not happy with the present approach, and the teacher (who's a guitar teacher, not a psychic) isn't picking up on that.

Tell him "these are the kinds of songs I want to play, but I really want to focus on the skills I need so I can figure them out myself". Then be prepared for the lessons to use songs only as examples - the stuff you'll be taught will fall into techniques (bends, vibrato, picking patterns, etc) or musical skills (chord identification, ear training, theory, song structure, etc.)

Your progress won't seem quite as fast, because you won't be learning a lot of songs in the lessons. Apply yourself, though, and it'll be there.

But you may not get exactly what you ask for: teachers have to blend both skills and repertoire... without either one, the other doesn't do any good. Depending on the student, I usually devote 15-25 minutes on skills, and 5-15 minutes on repertoire.

Sounds to me like you need to be at the 5 minute end of the scale on learning songs :)

Guitar teacher offering lessons in Plainfield IL


   
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(@alangreen)
Member
Joined: 22 years ago
Posts: 5342
 

Sounds like a weak start, especially if you're trying to cover a whole song in a 30 minute lesson - including getting it tabbed out.

Your teacher should have a set lesson plan, and a Plan B for when something's not going the way it should.

Example - from my own schedule - and remember that these won't be individual lessons; sometimes one song can go over three lessons. I give mystudents a tape/CD with these songs on it in order.

Horse with no name - gets people playing **something**. A minor pentatonic, first pattern, soloing at one note per beat.

Brown-eyed Girl - something well known to practice getting chord changes nailed. I always tab out the famous intro, cos everybody wants it.

Wonderwall - introduces pivots. More Am soloing at two notes per beat

Maggie May - introduces partial chords. String bends. More soloing using one or two notes per beat and string bends.

and so on... House of the Rising Sun is in there, so is Take It Easy (to get things really rocking), Kryptonite, and Time Of Your Life - which is there as the "this is how we work out a song from listening to the record" lesson. This last one's stonkingly popular as you can imagine

So, what should you be looking for out of your lessons?

I think you should be pounding out some good old rhythm stuff, using three or four chords per song, getting used to keeping up (with the drummer) and just having some fun.

You should be learning basic soloing techniques - even if you don't want to be Slash it doesn't hurt to have a starting point.

You should be learning some simple theory, chord shapes, barre chords (eventually), single note picking, travis picking, learning about using arpeggios (House Of The Rising Sun is great for this), partial chords, pivots and slides, and playing as many songs as you can get your grubby little mitts on. Buy a songbook or two from your local shop and challenge yourself (and your teacher).

And it should be a two way thing - if there's something you specifically want to study, then take it along to your lessons and make sure you're armed with a load of probing questions about the song, the rhythm, the verse/chorus/bridge structure and where on the neck you're going to play that solo. Yesterday, one of my students proudly showed me the introduction to That'll Be The Day, which I'd never bothered to sit down and work out myself, so I guess you could say he's teaching me too.

Anyway, this is a long post so I shall shut up now and let some of the others have their say. Keep your eye on your teacher - if you don't feel you're getting the right sort of structure from him, say so; it's your lesson (and your cash).

Best,

A :-)

"Be good at what you can do" - Fingerbanger"
I have always felt that it is better to do what is beautiful than what is 'right'" - Eliot Fisk
Wedding music and guitar lessons in Essex. Listen at: http://www.rollmopmusic.co.uk


   
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(@mushin)
Eminent Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 30
Topic starter  

Thanks Guys,

At our first lesson, he asked me what I wanted out of the lessons- they are my lessons so I should get what I want out of them. I think this was a good start. I explained I am not looking at learning songs, rather to be taught the tools. how to know which scale to use when, how to hear chords and rhythms/ strumming patterns etc.

I usually turn up with my books (with TAB / sheet music along with the CD) so we don't have to waste too much time scribing. If I think objectively about the first two lessons, he actually took me through picking arpeggios for Hotel California (which I was already strumming as complete chords) and we started off on some finger picking, which I have applied to House of the rising Sun (not much different to the version on here). He also recommended I play with other people I know if possible as this will help no end ( Now where have I heard that before????) He also told me to relax.....( haha- im suer I have definitely read that here many times before)

Im happy to not learn songs in the lesson- I put in a fair bit of time during the week at home so I try to pull some things together then, but am keen to develop the skills needed to hear the song, in particular strumming patterns, creating moods, etc along with ear training. I know this won't happen overnight (well it didn't happen last night :( ) and will take time...patience grasshopper.....

Alan,

I like the list you include- a fair majority of them are on my to do list either from an interest perspective of a learning techniques perspective.

From a vocab perspective, I have all the majors coming along well, a significant portion of the minors along with a few others thrown in, Barres are slowly coming along, various strumming patterns are progressing as is some very basic soloing ( a few riffs mainly). I am working on a couple of scales, but am not really at the stage of knowing what to do with them and when to use them.

Hammers and pulls are in early stages, while bends are at the neighbours place waiting for an invite.

I think this gives me a pretty good base to be working on things and developing technique along with playing through some songs.

I think I will prepare a list of things I want to work on that make some logical sense to me at least then we can further discuss.

Hopefully the next few weeks will demonstrate a lesson plan that has some premeditation to it once he works out exactly where I am at.

Thanks again for your advice and feedback.

cheers

Mick


   
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(@mushin)
Eminent Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 30
Topic starter  

A quick update...

went to class tonight and took a different tack. I asked to be taught theory. led into it with a couple of questions on soloing and improvisation and linking it to chord progressions.

We then worked on some improv. in a couple of keys while he put down a chord progression.

I can honestly say I came away with some increased clarity and some new stuff tonight.

Things are good.

Thanks for the advice.

cheers

Mick


   
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