Which Amp?

Anyhow, wait for our expert friends to chime in.

Well, I am certainly no expert, but I have lots of experience playing in a band situation with other instruments and guitarists.

That Line 6 amp may be very good. I have used them before and seen bands that use them. They do sound good. I have seen instances where they do not cut through good for solos, but this can be remedied.

The problem with amps like this, or even multi-effects pedals is that the presets are set up to sound fantastic in the music store or bedroom volume levels by yourself. And they do sound amazing in these situations. But playing in a band with other instruments is very different and you usually have to tweak all the presets to make them work well in these situations. For EQ, you almost always have to boost your Mids and cut your Lows. They will come with famous scooped Mids tone that sounds unreal in your bedroom. In a live situation with a bass player, drummer, and another guitarist you will wonder where your sound went. You can max your amp and still not hear yourself. So you have to set the amp up for live playing. And super distortions that sound fantastic at bedroom levels sound like a bunch of mad bees at high volumes. You usually have to come down on gain quite a bit.

So try the amp and see if you like it, but realize you are going to have to sit down with the manual and learn how to tweak all the presets to work in live situations. Now once you get it tweaked for live performance, it may not sound so great in the bedroom. They are just completely different worlds sonically. But amps like this are perfectly fine and can get great sounds if properly tweaked.

Well, I'm certainly no expert either....
Though I have to say that I do not care for modeling amps one bit.

Ones like the Line 6 amps sound very....Ummmm.... Counterfeit IMO.
All the modeling presets have way too much effect on them;
Like the blues preset - Full of a choruslike flangy element or something.
Really annoying to my ears.

I've played amps that have 'Historical Amp' models....
Like a 'Tweed' setting....?
What's that spose to mean????
Does it deliver a 50's Fender Tweed amp 'Brown Tone'????
I mean a 5 watt tweed Champ and 12 watt tweed Deluxe have entirely different sounds.
(Clapton on Layla for the Champ/Neil Young w/Crazy Horse for the Deluxe)
Both have copious amounts of overdrive capabilities almost to the point of distortion!
On a modeling amp though, the 'Tweed' setting is little more than a rephrasing of 'This is the cleanest channel on the amp'.

I've also played through those hybrid amps.... THe solid state amps with the 12AX7 preamp tube that's spose to
lend them the 'warmth' of a tube amp with the reliability of SS.
They didn't amount to much as far as my ears went.

Really, I think it comes down to what kind of music you play and where you think you'll go.
If tube amps are the sound you like; get a tube amp.... There just are NO substitutions for them.

If you can handle SS.... get a nice CLEAN solid state amp.
Like TR said.... the wattage will have to be higher on a SS amp.... and you should be looking for clean headroom.
That way, you'll be sure to cut through the mix, and with an array of pedals that YOU choose, you can customize the clean sound of the amp to your tastes.

And for the 600 bucks that the line 6 costs.... You have a few other nice amp options for that price range.

Besides.... The line 6 said it has 2 12 inch Celestion speakers in it....
Sounds great - Only GOOD Celestion speakers run about $250 a pop!
So, where does that leave the quality of that amp/speakers????

Ken

Besides.... The line 6 said it has 2 12 inch Celestion speakers in it....
Sounds great - Only GOOD Celestion speakers run about $250 a pop!
So, where does that leave the quality of that amp/speakers????

Ken

I don't disagree with your post as it is opinion and some do and some don't like modeling amps. However this is a bit over the top (kind of like the settings on a modeling amp :) ). There are a lot of good Celestion speakers for $70 to $100 retail if you go with ceramic magnets and even their Alnico Red Fang is only $150. Those are retail prices that you and I would pay in a store. The store is also probably only paying 50-60% of that price and a large amp manufacturer would get at least as good a deal if not better. A modeling amp is almost for sure going to sound better through a ceramic magnet speaker so there's probably only $70 to $100 of speakers in there total if not less (depending on the volume of speakers bought).

I don't disagree with your post as it is opinion and some do and some don't like modeling amps. However this is a bit over the top (kind of like the settings on a modeling amp :) ).

LOL!!!!

Alright.... You got me there!
Glad you were around to keep me honest! :D

I of course have a thing for Celestion AlNiCo Blue speakers - Which are around 250 + retail apiece.

Celestion's higher end ceramic speakers (Vintage 30's/Greenbacks) are just over 100 bucks retail.
(And yeah.... ceramics would go better with the Line 6 amp :wink: )

Still.... I'm sure that Celestion makes a low end speaker, just like the brand name guitar manufacturers make low end guitars.

It seems to me that what they're asking for is a 'suspension of disbelief' concerning the components as well as the amp models.

That is to say, that even though you may know that the 'Tweed' setting sounds nothing like any tweed amps,
nor does the blackface setting sound like any Fender 60's amps, and NO WAY that an AC15/AC30 setting sounds like
a Vox (unless it's made by Vox - and even then.... :| )
And that the '70's British Tube Crunch' setting can't come close to sounding like an Orange OR120....
You still walk around after buying the amp 'somewhat believing' it and showing those settings off.
And in the process; Distorting reality.

And then you say - well it has Celestion speakers.... It MUST sound good!
When in fact they are very inexpensive models.

Ya know????

Ken

There are a lot of good Celestion speakers for $70 to $100 retail if you go with ceramic magnets and even their Alnico Red Fang is only $150.

:oops: Oops! I was confused - still drinking my morning coffee. The Red Fang is an Eminence speaker not a Celestion. But the point about speaker pricing is still valid just with different names and models.

You'd think I'd know better - I own a Red Fang and have it in my old Traynor. Though I have given thoughts to getting a Celestion Greenback for the amp with the Red Fang in it - a cheaper ceramic speaker to replace the more expensive Alnico speaker - because of sonic and not cost considerations.

I of course have a thing for Celestion AlNiCo Blue speakers - Which are around 250 + retail apiece.

Probably only $100-150 to a high volume amp manufacturer.
Celestion's higher end ceramic speakers (Vintage 30's/Greenbacks) are just over 100 bucks retail.
(And yeah.... ceramics would go better with the Line 6 amp )

Still.... I'm sure that Celestion makes a low end speaker, just like the brand name guitar manufacturers make low end guitars.

The Blues are nice speakers if the sound they have is what you want. If it's not then it doesn't matter if they cost more. The Greenbacks too. Ceramic magnets are cheaper (cobalt and nickel are expensive) but that doesn't make them worse just different and increasingly these are vintage speakers now too - late 60's and 70's vintage. Just like classic rock now includes the 70's and even the 80's. Lower cost components are not equivalent to lower quality.

I'm sure that cost was a factor in whatever speakers are in the Line 6 amp but that's true of just about every manufactured fro sale product. They were also I'm sure looking for various design factors and operating characteristics in the speakers. Whether they had to trade off (a factor in many designs) or the best speaker for the job was already well within budget (maybe because the ceramic models are cheaper and also better for a modeling amp) we don't know.

Oh, I've got nothing against ceramic mag speakers.
That's part of the early 70's hard rock sound that's responsible for me wanting to play the guitar in the first place.

Good Quality speakers to me are an essential for good tone though.

I mean.... Look at the Fender Blues Jr amp.
A good sounding amp.
The stock speaker is an Eminence (I believe).

The lac Tweed version has a Jensen speaker in it.
Supposedly a HUGE sound improvement over the stock BJ.

New Jensen's may have the same designations as the old ones made in Chicago in the 60's....
Not the same by any stretch though.

Look up Celestion Greenback on MF and read the reviews.
SO MANY people replace the BJ's stock speaker with a $100.00 Greenback and say that it is a KILLER amp that way!

100 bucks for a tone improvement like that is well worth it to me.
(Personally - I'd love to try a BJ with an Alnico Blue in it! :twisted: )
(A Greenback would work till I could afford it though :wink: )

Ken

Sorry to jump in, but I have a question. My Blues Deluxe Reissue has what Fender is calling "Eminence special-design speaker " I know I like it and will not change it (long amounts of test driving....I was very sure and still am), but I was just curious as to where this speaker falls into the great rhelm of things with those of you in the know.

Sorry to jump in, but I have a question. My Blues Deluxe Reissue has what Fender is calling "Eminence special-design speaker " I know I like it and will not change it (long amounts of test driving....I was very sure and still am), but I was just curious as to where this speaker falls into the great rhelm of things with those of you in the know.

Hey Roy :D

Eminence makes real good speakers at a lower cost than say Celestion/Jensen.... and they are usually lighter in weight.

Celestions and Jensens have more of a unique signature sound to their product.
One trick pony types.... some people may be turned off by the lack of flexibility.
(Think 'The Marshall Sound'.... That has a lot to do with the usage of Celestion ceramics.
Or the 'Fender Blackface Tone'.... Lots of Jensen loaded amps there).

Where as Eminence probably appeals to a wider range of tastes.

Like Hyperborea would say.... That doesn't mean one is better or worse; They're just different :wink:

Some people'll like to keep that sound and flexibility and simply add something like a Marshall pedal to change the sound.

Some will undoubtedly go for a speaker change and no pedals.

If thinking of swapping a ceramic speaker for an AlNiCo in a newer amp.... There could be fit problems.
Ceramics are very compact.... Alnicos may be a bit too big.
There's always modification though :twisted:

And, I never look at the price as a determining factor.
Saying that something is the best simply because it costs more is not what I do.

I do however recognize quality.... and most times, Quality doesn't come cheap.

I was into Alnico Blues way before I knew how much they were....
Damn near swallowed my tongue the first time I saw the retail on 'em!

Ken

Sorry to jump in, but I have a question. My Blues Deluxe Reissue has what Fender is calling "Eminence special-design speaker " I know I like it and will not change it (long amounts of test driving....I was very sure and still am), but I was just curious as to where this speaker falls into the great rhelm of things with those of you in the know.

You can't know 100% for sure. That "Eminence special-design speaker" is a custom speaker for Fender and you can't buy it except in a Fender amp or as a replacement part from Fender. So, what happened at some point is a Fender product design manager said to Eminence, "We really like speaker X but we want more mid-range honk [or some other speaker characteristic or maybe none], we want it to cost less [almost for sure], and we want you to label it for us with our name. How much will you let us have it for if we buy a minimum of Y thousand a year?" Now maybe Eminence designed one from scratch but that's not too likely.

If you can figure out which one was the base model they used then you could figure out where it lies in the Eminence range of speakers. Maybe Fender has a spectral graph for the speaker you could compare against other Eminence speakers? If not you'll have to look at physical characteristics - magnet type and size, frame construction, the cone material and ribbing, etc. I'd also consider googling around as someone may have already done all that work.

Of course Hyperborea is right.
I have no idea which model Fender Special Design speakers are....
In fact, from Fender amp to Fender amp.... they may not even be the same speaker!

Eminence makes a bunch of different speakers.... the Epi Blues Custom 30/15 watt tube amp has Eminence
speakers in them.... Lady Lucks.

They have the Patriot line (Based on old Jensens),
And the Redcoat (Based on Celestions).

And they even make speakers with a hemp cone (Cannabis Rex!).

Still - For the most part, I feel that Eminence has a wider range of tonal possibilities and flexibility as compared to Celestion or Jensen. (Of course, there are many other really great speakers besides these three makers).
And probably, the special design speaker was made to be flexible enough to be used in a wide variety of Fender amps/applications.
Who knows.... In 25 years, the Eminence Special Design may be talked about defining the Fender Sound of todays amps,
much like Jensens are talked about now of 60's Fenders :wink:

Ken

Thanks for the info. Like I said, I ain't changing nuttin. Good to get some idea about what it is that I own, though. :D

Roy,

Still don't know what speaker specifically....
I just ran across the Eminence Legend series of speakers;
Says Eminence recomends the model 1218 as a direct replacement for the Fender Twin combo.

The specs that I found on that amp just say 2 12" Eminence speakers - Not special design.

I would try taking a look into the other Legend series speakers.... You may find a match there.

Ken

Mine's just a 1X12. No combo. http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Fender-Blues-Deluxe-Reissue-40W-1x12-Combo-Amp?sku=483718

Back to the original post ....

Here's some higher watt SS amps in the price range:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Fender-FM-100H-Guitar-Amp-Head?sku=483716

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Fender-FM-412-4x12-100-Watt-4Ohm-Cabinet?sku=601726

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Crate-Flexwave-FW120-2x12-Guitar-Combo-Amp?sku=481052

They seem to get satisfactory reviews, and have nice clean channels.

Ken

Mine's just a 1X12. No combo. http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Fender-Blues-Deluxe-Reissue-40W-1x12-Combo-Amp?sku=483718

Yeah.... Always liked that amp :D

Check that link for the Legend that I posted.... There are 'you may also like' links furthur down that provide
other legend speaker models.
The one you have may be similar to one of those others.

Is it true that it has a pretty early breakup in the clean channel????

If so.... That has a lot to do with the wiring and such....
Still, perhaps a Higher Watt rated speaker will provide more headroom (as if that's what you were looking for! :twisted: )
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Jensen-C12K-100W-12-Replacement-Speaker?sku=665004

Ken