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slejhamer
(@slejhamer)
Famed Member
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 3221
Topic starter  

Well, my setup is a little different because my "amp" is a pedal, but this is my current chain:

Tuner
Wah
Overdrive
Distortion
>> Preamp (Tech 21 Liverpool, a Vox AC30 emulator)
Tremolo
Chorus
Delay
>> to DI box or power amp.

My thinking is that, if I had an amp with built-in FX, the trem/chorus/delay would be after the preamp, so that's effectively where I've got things.

I definitely like wah before OD/Distortion; I think it sounds terribly thin if placed after.

Now, if I used an actual guitar amp with no loop, I'd keep the same order (sans the Liverpool) and just run it into the input jack. (And since I just bought an amp on ebay, that's what I'll do!)

Can't help with whammy placement as I don't have need for one; I'd think vibe would go in the loop with the chorus/trem type of fx.

Cheers,

"Everybody got to elevate from the norm."


   
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Jammin'John
(@jamminejohn)
Eminent Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 28
 

Overdrive,phasor,delay,amp.

JJ


   
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U2Bono269
(@u2bono269)
Noble Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 1167
 

let's see...I just majorly simplified my board so this should be easy...mine goes

guitar
mxr dyna comp
dunlop classic wah
boss ds1
danelectro fab OD
proco rat 2

amp (usually with the built-in reverb or delay)

http://www.brianbetteridge.com


   
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slejhamer
(@slejhamer)
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Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 3221
Topic starter  

Fixing your links, which are broken:
True Bypass comparison:

Op Amp comparison:

Those are terrific, and I really enjoyed the Visual Sound shootout videos!

You'd also like this: The Truth About True Bypass

The problem, as you noted, is that many pedals use lousy buffers that do indeed change the tone in undesirable ways, and in some cases it's easy and inexpensive to modify them for true bypass. I like my Ibanez CS9 chorus, but I can easily tell the difference when the pedal is bypassed and when it's out of the loop entirely. I built a little bypass looper with spare parts; problem solved. One question is why are bypass loopers so darned expensive? They're just jacks and a switch!

"Everybody got to elevate from the norm."


   
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Kevin72790
(@kevin72790)
Prominent Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 837
 

My pedalboard is setup like this:

Octave Fuzz - Dunlop Octavio
Wah - Vox v847 with mods from Maxxplay
Fuzz - OX FUZZ Germanium
Fuzz - Dunlop JH Silicon Fuzz
Overdrive - Fulltone OCD v4
Univibe - KR Megavibe
Delay - MXR Carbon Copy

I really like the octave fuzz before the wah, I just think it flat out sounds better that way. But I much prefer 'regular' fuzz after any wah. My silicon fuzz does not react well at all to the wah, so I don't use both together that often, but the germanium fuzz works fine.

Just experiment though, try different combinations and see what works best for you.


   
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slejhamer
(@slejhamer)
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Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 3221
Topic starter  

they set up a really good clean channel with the dynamics they like using a good tube amp and then use pedals to enhance and modify the tones.

This can work with an amp simulator (my setup), not only a tube amp! I have the Liverpool pedal set clean but just on the edge of breakup, and it is reasonably sensitive to picking dynamics. I step on my Sparkle Drive for overdrive, or my MI Audio Crunch Box for distortion. It's like having a 3-channel ampless amp.

But, I might sell the Sparkle Drive and get a VS Route 808 ... those demos were quite good. :)

"Everybody got to elevate from the norm."


   
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gnease
(@gnease)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 5038
 

But, I might sell the Sparkle Drive and get a VS Route 808 ... those demos were quite good. :)

heh! you'll miss it eventually.

-=tension & release=-


   
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Crow
 Crow
(@crow)
Honorable Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 549
 

I'm re-examining my pedalboard these days, so this thread is welcome.

Eight years ago I took a few days to push my pedals around, and the best-sounding configuration went like this: guitar > DeArmond volume pedal > Ibanez TX9DX Turbo Tube Screamer > MXR Distortion Plus > In-Line Effects XE601 Extra Distortion > Electro-Harmonix Small Stone Phase Shifter > Vox/Thomas Organ Cry Baby > MXR Analog Delay > amp. That's how it's been ever since, and i've seen no reason to change anything. Today I'm considering compression & clean boost, and possibly a parallel array for the distortions, as I rarely have more than one fuzzbox on at once.

But then, I rarely use any of the pedals at all. I have a bad attitude toward stomp boxes. I figure if you need a charisma box to make your guitar/amp combination sound good, something's wrong. But then, I'm not a working pro at present. Not having to conjure SRV or ZZ night after night is a blessing. I know the sound I like -- neck-position single-coils into 6V6s -- and I don't need to mess with it much.

The flip side of course is that pedals give you innumerable sonic options & room for experimentation & discovery. And I respectfully disagree that "it is not a matter of what one likes." Creativity does not respect rules of any kind. If it did, we would not tolerate distorted guitar tones, would we?

"You can't write a chord ugly enough to say what you want to say sometimes, so you have to rely on a giraffe filled with whipped cream." - Frank Zappa


   
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slejhamer
(@slejhamer)
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Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 3221
Topic starter  

My only knock on the Sparkle Drive it that it's too smooth! In the VS shootout, I really liked the way the Klon sounded, and the VS 808 sounded more like the Klon than a typical tubescreamer type. I know, the circuits are similar ... but these seemed to have the mid-bump set a little lower. To my ears. :lol:

Back on topic: compressor before or after wah? I've always been told to put it before. Does it matter much? With a pedal like the VS Route 66, with OD and compression, the compressor would be after the wah. Any pros/cons of that?

"Everybody got to elevate from the norm."


   
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Crow
 Crow
(@crow)
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Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 549
 

...some people can have realy bad tastes. They all believe their wives are pretty and their kids smart.

Oh boy, do I get that. But "taste" is a difficult topic, esp. when we're talking about pop music. If a pedal generates a top-40 hit, it gets "tasteful" in a hurry. Again, not being a working pro, I don't have to deal with such lapses of taste.
Say Crow, why the volume pedal up front? I've seen most of them in the end or in the loop to control the overall level. Are you using it to drive the line?

You know, I don't know where I picked up the idea that the volume pedal belongs up front. With noisy vintage pedals like mine, it probably makes a lot more sense at the end. I'll try it. Thanks!

"You can't write a chord ugly enough to say what you want to say sometimes, so you have to rely on a giraffe filled with whipped cream." - Frank Zappa


   
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Crow
 Crow
(@crow)
Honorable Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 549
 

Finally, guitar website with some traffic. I hope a lot of this will be of some use to all ranges of players out there. I have been down the road and around the mountain a good many years but my love and search for the "tone of the Gods" is ever present and I get ideas from all levels of players to check out and try.

Yes! There is so much room for discussion on this, and so little discussion online. You have the pedal-magic angle, I'm more of a straight-into-the-amp guy, and where else are we going to connect? and who is going to benefit from the connection?
I agree with Crow that the issue of poppy music might bring us any weird tone or apparent sound blasphemy by misplacing pedals but somehow having to use the effect in your chain all the time to duplicate that recorded tone is perhaps a pain. To me it's an immature level of playing like wide strumming because one has no technique or finese of playing.

Well, "Satisfaction" put the distortion pedal into a whole lot of chains & was probably considered "immature" at the time. That's my point. (Keith would make the point differently, I suspect.)
The problem with boxes is also some things do not like other things no matter if it's sonically kosher.

Yes, yes, yes! And this is part of the reason why the instrument interests me so much. I won't go on about it here, but... yeah!
... those old fuzz pedals have really terrible no bypass and no line through buffer stage. A good isolator loop is essential for them unless you want to modify them.

I dropped a "true bypass" switch into my vintage Thomas Organ wah, but the value was lost on me -- just don't use the pedals that much. Maybe I should just sell them, eh? :D

"You can't write a chord ugly enough to say what you want to say sometimes, so you have to rely on a giraffe filled with whipped cream." - Frank Zappa


   
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BudaRhythmic
(@budarhythmic)
Eminent Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 15
 

This thread makes me want to get rid of my Boss ME-20 and buy a bunch of individual pedals... I need to experiment with a lot of this myself before I can give any opinions on the matter. The ME-20 doesn't really give me the right sound I want, at least with the distortion options, and I've fiddled with it for a while now. I wonder if this is because my solid state Line 6 just can't possibly give me the tone I want or simply because I need to fiddle more with the knobs?

I also just realized that there's no way for me to stick to the 'proper chain' if I want to amp my pedals distortion - it doesnt have send or recieve jacks - so i could only connect it by going through the effects loop. What's the big deal with running the distortion from the multi after the pre-amp, so long as you aren't using the amp's overdrive already? My Line 6 doesn't have an effects loop so I've never really had to deal with one, but I have a new Carvin Belair on the way which DOES have an effects loop, so I figure I should start learning about how to use it right haha.


   
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BudaRhythmic
(@budarhythmic)
Eminent Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 15
 

I in no way would suggest the Boss unit or any other is not good, but the more advanced you become the more you will crave the ability complexity individual boxes can give you. The problem is, which ones to get, and that is the $64K problem.

I agree completely with this statement. I don't think my ME-20 is bad, per se, but I feel like I'm ready to start investing in individual effects so I can customize my sound even more than I ever could.

I don't plan on using my solid state Line 6 once my Carvin Belair 2x12 tube comes in, which has that awesome clean sound you spoke of. But like you said now I gotta decide which pedals I truly want, and only after I acquire these can I really delve into the search for the 'holy grail' of tones lol.

BTW my Line 6 had some really good effects built in to the amp, but I can't stand that. I gig, and a box is much more convenient than having to adjust the amp knobs mid-set. My multi's distortion just can't get the same tone that the amps built in fx have though, which is why I wanted to upgrade to a tube.
Another female canine I have about even the best boxes is that I love to loop some effects in the amp loop and keep others up front.

This is the exact reason I want individual boxes and not my multi anymore. If I go from my multi into the amp in thatn I'm going against the things I learned from this thread and other chain suggestions. From how I understood it, if you have a multi, the only reason you'd want to go from the mutli to the preamp is if you have a send-recieve loop on it as well, so you'd go:
guitar->multi->preamp->amp send->multi receive-> multi send-> amp receive-> power amp

If I do this I' can amplify the distortion through the preamp and modulate in the effects loop, or at least according to what I read. Not 100% on how it does this, I'm still one of those 'younger guys' you mentioned, and I'm just breaching th tip of the iceberg on this whole subject, so I have a lot to learn and apologize if anything I say is completely wrong lol.


   
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kingpatzer
(@kingpatzer)
Noble Member
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 2171
 

I play jazz, so my setup is very minimalist. But it goes:

Guitar -> eq -> tube screamer -> chorus -> eq -> amp

I've just added the tube screamer, so I put a second eq in just to see if I needed it. I'm not sure I do, so it might come out.

"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." -- HST


   
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Crow
 Crow
(@crow)
Honorable Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 549
 

EL34s,6L6 or 5881s, any preference? What do you think sounds the best?

I am not a technician, acoustician, amp architect or audiophile, nor do I put myself out as such, here or anywhere, at any time. I'm a player, and not a very good one -- a well-trained musician, however, whose ears are not just painted onto the sides of my head. Given that, my preferences are my opinions only.

As far as listening to recorded/broadcast music is concerned, the question is absurd. How can you choose between Cream-era Clapton, Ted Nugent's wall-of-Twins, SRV's menagerie of daisy-chained amps, or Keith Richards' mystic studio/stage selections? They are all equally yummy. This sounds glib & facile, I know -- but it's true: In the hands of an artist, ANY tube will shine.

In terms of personal performing preference, I am fortunate to have spent some time in the amp-repair business & have played through a lot of amplifiers up close & personal at low volume in small rooms. That is not the same as playing through an amp on stage or in the studio. My personal, self-selected amp experience has been limited by finances. I swap tubes when I absolutely must, with what i can get my hands on affordably at the time. That said, I lean to the "American" sound -- the Fender-y sound produced in general by 6V6/6L6 tubes -- more than the "British" sound. Within the Fender bracket I'm most happy in the Champ-Deluxe spectrum. Twins are lovely in the right venue, but you have to have a space in which you can crank them up.

My personal "tone quest" ended when I found my Number One Amp: an early-'50s National tweed 1x12 combo. My Number Two Amp is a '60s National, a Studio 10. Both amps are based on 6V6's. The 1x12 has two channels: one has a Champ-ish vibe, although the architecture is obviously different, and the other has way more gain and a Deluxe-ish vibe. The 1x10 is Champ-y, but not as tight as the non-tweed Champs I have played through. I have thrown a lot of tubes into both & have no distinct preference. Both amps badly need to be re-capped; the 1x12 isn't suitable for stage or studio. They are one-trick ponies, both of them -- but they make beautiful sounds, to my ears.

If we're going to get into specific tube designations, we will logically follow that with specific pickup designations, specific body- and neck-wood/scale-length designations, pot values, cable specs, et cetera ad nauseum. This is fine for those of us who need a lifestyle. Myself, I have a lifestyle. At present, I don't care to adopt a new one based on the infinitesimal nuances of guitar tone. There are folks out there who have adopted that lifestyle, and God bless 'em. But it's not my bag.

OD's/distortion pedals with tubes: This gets into the difference between preamp-tube distortion and power-tube distortion. I haven't worked out the distinctions between the two, and I haven't worked with tube-based overdrives enough to have a preference.
Retubing an amp is like getting a new one especially if you get some quality tubes.

Assuming your caps & resistors are all healthy, you're right.

"You can't write a chord ugly enough to say what you want to say sometimes, so you have to rely on a giraffe filled with whipped cream." - Frank Zappa


   
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