Another "What's this chord" query....

I think E7sus... seems more correct given what you've said, but I'd wait for Noteboat to confirm. Or do what worked for Hendrix and name it "a Vic Lewis chord" :wink:

Well, let's start by assuming that the root is in the chord.

If it's E, you have E-B-D-F-A, 1-5-b7-b9-11. When using an 11th chord, it's common to drop the third (if it's a major third), so that's E11b9.

If it's B, you have B-D-F-A-E. 1-b3-b5-b7-11. That's a half-diminished chord with an added note; Bm7b5/11.

If it's F, you have F-A-E-B-D, or 1-3-7-11-13. Fifths are optional in extended chords, and the 9th doesn't have to be present in a 13th chord... so Fmaj13

If it's A, then it's A-E-B-D-F, which is 1-5-9-11-13. Since there's no 7th, we'd call the 13 a 6th, and you'd have 1-5-6-9-11. With no third, you might go with A6/9sus.

And if it's D, it's D-F-A-E-B, 1-b3-5-9-13. Again, with no 7th, that 13 is really a 6 - so that's Dm6/9

So, its "a Vic Lewis chord" then.

Scrybe, I wouldn't call it a sus - since it has both the 7th and 9th, it makes sense that it's an 11th, and the third is dropped.

sus7 chords are common in quartal harmony, but then it would usually be voiced 1-4-b7.

To put it in context.....it's from "California Dreaming" by the Mamas and Papas. A friend sent me a rather confused tab and I'm trying to tidy it up a little.....this is what I've got for the first verse.....
California Dreaming.

F (Fmaj13?E11b9?) E
On a winter's day (on a winter's day,
I've denoted the chord (LOL Scrybe - I suppose it's a "John Phillips" chord as he wrote the music...) as (Fmaj13?E11b9?)above.....as there's both an F and an E chord in there (I'm not too good on key signatures!).....does that help in naming it?

:D :D :D

Vic

A couple of things don't add up there NoteBoat.
If it's F root, then the B is a #4: (F maj13/#11?)
If it's A then the F is a b6 (Amaj b6/9sus?). By the way, is the 9sus here referring to the fact that 9 is present and 3 isn't? like the infamous sus2 that livens up the forum now and again :D Or is there another reason for it? I don't think I've ever encountered the term sus9.

Silly me - right on both the F and the A, Fretsource.

I wouldn't call the 9 a "sus" though, under any circumstances. 9s are "add" when there's no 7th. Since there's no third in the voicing if A is the root, whether it's a b6/9 or a mb6/9 would depend on the surrounding chords.

Having just seen the context in Vic's post I think the root is E.

I wouldn't call the 9 a "sus" though, under any circumstances. 9s are "add" when there's no 7th. Since there's no third in the voicing if A is the root, whether it's a b6/9 or a mb6/9 would depend on the surrounding chords.
That's why I was confused about your calling it a sus9. I assumed it must be an acceptable term in some quarters. Yes - dead right about the missing 3rd meaning it can't be called maj or min out of context - I missed that one.

It certainly is a strange chord - I've never come across it anywhere before! It's also a bugger to change to from an F chord - there's no obvious "pivot" for a finger. Best I can manage at the moment is to play the E7sus4 chord for a beat (index on the A string, 2nd finger on the G string) then to add the other two notes (3rd finger on the Dstring, pinky on the B string) as soon as possible - doesn't sound too bad, anyway.

Thanks yet again for your help, guys! I don't know where I'd be without you! (Probably scratching my head, trying to work out the difference between majors, minors and 7ths.........)

While the E note looks and sounds like the root, I'm tempted to go with E11b9....for now, anyway!

:D :D :D

Vic

I wouldn't call the 9 a "sus" though, under any circumstances. 9s are "add" when there's no 7th. Since there's no third in the voicing if A is the root, whether it's a b6/9 or a mb6/9 would depend on the surrounding chords.
That's why I was confused about your calling it a sus9. I assumed it must be an acceptable term in some quarters. Yes - dead right about the missing 3rd meaning it can't be called maj or min out of context - I missed that one.

Sorry, NoteBoat. My mistake. You didn't call it a sus 9 but a 6/9 sus. So, the "sus" is referring to the 4th D, not the 2nd (or 9th) B.

As for part of that, it took me a while to finally realize that a sus/6 chord was just an awkward way of describing a IV chord. :lol:

As for part of that, it took me a while to finally realize that a sus/6 chord was just an awkward way of describing a IV chord. :lol:

Ric, if by sus/6 chord you mean a sus4 chord with an added 6th, it would be the "add9" of the IV chord....

Example; A sus4/6...x 0 4 2 3 0...

in the key of A, you've got A (root) on the 5th and 3rd strings, D(fourth) on the 2nd string, E(5th) on the 1st string, and F# (6th).....

if you take D(IV in the key of A) as the root, you've got D(root) F#(3rd) and A(fifth)...that's the major triad - but you've also got the E on the 1st string, which is the 9th....no flattened 7th, so it's a Dadd9 chord....

One of those chords Keith uses a lot in open G....

x 0 0 0 0 0.....G
x 0 2 0 1 0.....Cadd9

(But you knew THAT bit already, didn't you!)

:D :D :D

Vic

Yeah, it's an old standard blues lick to hammer on and off of that in Open G, or move it over one string toward the bass in Open D like Booker White did in Aberdeen, Mississippi, for instance.