circle of fifths

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# circle of fifths

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(@beans7178)
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Joined: 18 years ago
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Topic starter

ok so basically when you use the co5 you can figure out what key your playing in by what sharps or flatts you have. well im going to transpose a song but have no idea what key it is in so i figured lets use the circle of fifths. Well it dawwned on me that my one note that has a sharp is an f# but cant an F# also be considered a Gd so whihc one do i go with the flat or the sharp because it determines what key implaying whether ts one or the other. help would be greatly appreciated

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(@snoogans775)
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Joined: 19 years ago
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it's the F#, the number of sharps/flats follow a particular order on the circle of fifths, if you look at the order in which the notes are listed as sharp on the right side, from left to right, it goes

F, C, G, D, A, E, B

my mnemonic device for this is, Frank Can Go Down And Eat Bananas(yup)

there isn't a Gb all by itslef on the left side of the circle, so you write one flat, on F. Which is the Gmaj

This is one of the first theory questions i've been able to answer, so I hope I explained that well!

I don't follow my dreams, I just ask em' where they're going and catch up with them later.
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(@alex_)
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Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 608

if a key has 1 sharp.. its deffinatly G major or E minor..

if a key has 2 sharps, its either D major / B minor

the order of sharps is..

when you go through it, certain sharps are added in a certain order

F, C, G, D, A, E, B

like that..

when you see music notated.. you might notice the sharps are in a funny order.. its this order..

if a key is in B major (B C# D# E F# G# A# B)

the sharps will be listen in the key signature, in this way..
F C G D A.

(@sirn)
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Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 358

These guys got some good info. After awhile, you should basically know which keys have which sharps/flats. At least how many depending on the keys that you would use more frequently in your playing.

For me playing rock, I originally knew which notes were in the keys, E/A/D/G pretty quickly and had them down pat. This included their relative minors. From there, depending on what you play more often, you'd probably get a feeling for the other keys that are not as popular for your style.

I don't know, that's just how it happened for me. And I actually never really looked into the circle of fifths or fourths or whatever it is! :lol:

check out my website for good recording/playing info

(@alex_)
Honorable Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 608

circle of fifth's is sharps

circle of fourths is flats..

C -> G -> D -> A

C = none
G = F#
D = F# + C#
A = F# + C# + G#

the sharps that are added are also going up in fifth's.. (F->C->G)

***

however..

circle of fourths..

C -> F -> Bb -> Eb

C = none
F = Bb
Bb = Bb + Eb
Eb = Bb + Eb + Ab

the flats are going up in a sequence of fourths too (B E A) etc.

(@gary-j-foreman)
Eminent Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 32

I found this site helpful regarding the circle of 5ths

http://www.zentao.com/guitar/theory/circle.html

it shows, as Alex said, about the sharps increasing CWise as you go around the circle of 5ths by 1 each time, and flats the other way ACW

gaz.

(@greybeard)
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Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 5840

Try this, it may be a little simpler

http://people.freenet.de/greybeard/CycleOfFifths.htm

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(@sirn)
Reputable Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 358

One of you guys needs to send over a cleaning crew to clean up all this brain matter that just blew outta my head. :lol:

I've understood the cirlce of fifths, the key sigs and the number of flats/sharps...

But you guys just blew my head wide open like a canoe! :lol:

Still, good stuff. Thanks.

Whew, can we get back to something simple like the meaning of life. 8)

check out my website for good recording/playing info

(@greybeard)
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Joined: 20 years ago
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Whew, can we get back to something simple like the meaning of life.

42

I started with nothing - and I've still got most of it left.
Did you know that the word "gullible" is not in any dictionary?
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(@paul-donnelly)
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What is six times seven?

(@alex_)
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Posts: 608

42?

(@viator)
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Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 8

One of the articles that have been writen seem to confuse wheather the fiths go clockwise or counterclockwise.

Which one is it?

Eat rice!

(@huey)
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Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 9

in the standard circle fifths are read clockwise, fourths counter-clockwise

42 is an old joke. let's talk about 1:1.618 for a while and how to apply it to your music! ;)

(@noteboat)
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Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 4921

Viator, the circle runs both ways. If you move clockwise, each key is a fifth above the one that preceeds it... if you move counterclockwise, each key is a fourth above the one that preceeds it. The two intervals (fifth/fourth) are what's called inversions of each other - moving a fifth up is the same as moving a fourth down, moving a fourth up is the same as moving a fifth down - in terms of the note name or key name.

That makes the circle especially useful - you know how common that I-IV-V progression is? Well... take any old odd key, like Db. If Db is the I chord, the next step counter-clockwise shows you Gb will be the IV, and the step clockwise from Db shows you Ab will be the V.

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(@greybeard)
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let's talk about 1:1.618 for a while and how to apply it to your music!

I'd rather discuss 1,05946309436 and how to apply it to music.

I started with nothing - and I've still got most of it left.
Did you know that the word "gullible" is not in any dictionary?
Greybeard's Pages
My Articles & Reviews on GN

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