Darned scales!

Ya I actually never talked about scale degrees. Intervals are very important, they let you think in terms of music. Those patterns I wrote are all starting on the 1st going through the major scale. There are a total of 8 notes in each pattern. They are the 7 notes of the major scale and then the 8th note is the octave (the same note as the first)

If you started on C and made the C major pattern you would get

C MAJOR
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8(1)
c d e f g a b c

If you start on the 6th degree of the scale, literally the 6th note in the C - major scale you find the note A. Starting on A using the notes of C major you will build the A minor scale. You can build a natural minor scale by starting on the 6th degree of any major scale (the G major scale will build you an E minor scale)

But here is a better way to look at it, it is critical that you understand this. Build a Major scale starting on A that gives you

A MAJOR
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8(1)
a b c# d e f# g# a

Now you ALTER this pattern to make the A minor scale, to change a major scale to a natural minor scale you only have to move 3 scale degrees. You flat the 3rd, 6th, and 7th.

A MINOR
1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 8(1)
a b c d e f g a

When you are playing in C major your "tonal center" is C. When you are playing in A minor your "tonal center" is A. They use the same notes and A is called the "relative minor" of C because they share the same notes.

But notes alone do not determine how you hear them, it is the intervallic relationships between them that you are implying that determine your sound. Notice the way each note in the C major scale relates to C (this is where you use intervals) Now look how the same notes relate to A. They are the same notes. The intervals are different! They sound different! They ARE different!

This is a very confusing subject at first, hopefully that made sense. Let me know if there is anything you don't understand.

I don't really understand what degree means, but do you mean that I can start the scale from anywhere and it will sound about the same, just in a lower or higher pitch. One more thing, cause now you're confusing me, You say that in the Minor scale you're supposed to flat the 3rd 6th and 7th, but here http://www.all-guitar-chords.com/guitar_scales.php?scch=C&scchnam=Harmonic+Minor&get2=Get it says you're supposed to flat the 3rd and 6th.

Any way I think I'm gradually starting to understand scales, at least therotically practically it's harder to play them, thanks a lot for the help!

Degree means the number of the scale step, not where you start it (you can't have degrees until you have a starting point for the scale).

If you play a C major scale:

C-D-E-F-G-A-B-C

the A note is the 6th degree. If you play the SAME notes, but you start with A, you get:

A-B-C-D-E-F-G-A

which is the natural minor scale. Now compare that to the major scale pattern starting on A:

A-B-C#-D-E-F#-G#-A

The natural minor scale is the same as the major scale with three lowered notes: the 3rd, 6th, and 7th.

The natural minor scale is not the same as the harmonic minor. To get a harmonic minor, you can start with the natural minor and raise the 7th, or start with the major and lower the 3rd and 6th.

Ok I think I understand Noteboat, but what's that good for? Are you supposed to combine the two different scales and continue, or is this just meant as a way to easily learn the natural minor scale?

It's just an easier way to learn the natural minor.

Try playing the chord progression. Am - Em It sounds nice and all, these are the chords you would get by using the natural minor scale.

But now try playing Am - Emajor Listen to how strong that sounds when you use an E Major in the key of A minor. This is because it uses the harmonic minor scale as the basis for the chords. The E major contains that raised 7th from the harmonic minor scale. Listen to how cool it sounds.

And you can mix the minor up a lot thats why its so fun. You can even raise the 6th sometimes also.

You might try finding a book or theory website do fill in all the details.

Hmm I don't really understand that raised 7th and 6th thing, but I think I'll just try find a good theroy site as you suggested, just chime in if you've got one.

Hmm I don't really understand that raised 7th and 6th thing, but I think I'll just try find a good theroy site as you suggested, just chime in if you've got one.

As mentioned above, there are three forms of the minor scale called the natural, harmonic, and melodic forms.

Starting from A, for example, they are

A B C D E F G = NATURAL MINOR
A B C D E F G# = HARMONIC MINOR (7th degree is raised- G becomes G#)
A B C D E F#G# = MELODIC MINOR (6th and 7th degrees are raised - F & G become F# & G#)

Composers and songwriters, when writing a song in the key of A minor, will routinely use the notes from any or all of those forms. They string them out in any order they wish to make melodies and they'll also play some of them at the same time to make chords.
It's like a kid's paint set with two extra colours included (F# and G#). Those two extra colours ... I mean 'notes' can make a great difference.
As DNeck pointed out, if we stick with just the natural minor, we can make nice chord progressions such as E minor to A minor, but if we use the others we can make more powerful progressions such as E major to A minor.
That's because the chord E minor is made up of the notes E, G & B, which we can get from the natural form. But E major is made from the notes E, G# & B, which we CAN'T get from the natural form as it has no G#.

what's that good for?

Henrik use those chord progression to hear the way they sound. Play something like Am-Em thats the natural minor sound. But play Am-G-Emajor listen to the sound of that Emajor chord it sounds so powerful because of the raised 7th also called the "leading tone" because it leads to the tonic. Release the tension that the E major creates by going back to the tonic, Am. (or don't! its up to you as the composer)

The progression from E major to Aminor sounds so strong because the E major contains the natural 7th (G#) which is only a half step away from the tonic (A) which is definetly in the Am chord.

There are a lot of great sites out there, do you want one that uses the staff and standard notation or just tabs? The great thing about intervals is you don't have to use notes at all really if you don't want to, and then when you eventually do want to use standard notation the intervals make it easier to read music.

Well I think I understand what you mean but I'm not sure. Anyways if I bump into any problems I'll tell you. I'm not sure about what I want, I can't read anything but tabs, so either a very simple staff and standard notation so I can learn that too or tab either ways good for me.

Thanks!

Looks like you all are talking about topics related to major scale patterns. Since so many musical elements stem from these patterns, all serious players should master them early on, especially if they want to ever understand guitar theory. Below I've pasted an article I wrote on this topic that will help you out. Also, go to iTunes or Talkshoe.com and search "guitar theory" and you'll find an hour long Podcast lesson about major scale patterns on the fretboard.

Learning Guitar Major Scale Patterns
Guitarists of all levels play melodies, riffs, lead guitar solos and bass lines using major scales. The notes of the major scale cover the whole fretboard. To learn this scale template, players break it up into smaller pieces. This article will discuss how this process works and address common issues concerning patterns, fingerings, picking and transposing. With this information, guitar players will understand the process that eventually leads to successful usage and application of major scales, which is necessary in order to develop a strong knowledge of guitar theory.

Major Scale Patterns
When learning the major scale, players break up the notes into positions or patterns. Usually this is done with five pieces but there are other ways to do it. It really doesn't matter how the whole major scale template is broken up as long as the pieces are put together to cover the whole guitar fretboard. Also, different major scale patterns are not different scales. They're the same notes in different positions.

To see the major scale patterns illustrated on a neck diagram readers can go to Google.com and search "major scale patterns." Several web sites will come up that post versions of the patterns for free. Major scale patterns are also drawn out in many instructional guitar theory books such as Fretboard Theory.

Memorize Scale Patterns
As guitarists learn major scale patterns they should focus on only one at a time. Players should visualize the pattern on the fret board and play up and down it until it's completely memorized. It's not necessary to start or end on the root, but rather players should touch on every possible note available in a given position.

Major Scale Fingering
There are no correct or perfect ways to finger major scale patterns, but there are some bad habits that should be avoided. Good players would never do something silly like play through a whole pattern with only one or two fingers. This will make any guitarist look and sound like a hack. Instead, players should try to get three or four fingers involved. Positions should be covered by setting the hand in position and then reaching with the fingers. It's good to settle on a set fingering and then be consistent throughout practice, but players will no doubt use other fingerings when they start actually playing music especially when techniques such as slides, hammer-ons, pull-offs and bends are involved.

Alternate Picking
While guitarists are learning and rehearsing major scale patterns they should alternate their pick. Scale patterns require a lot of practice time. Negative habits, like plunking through everything with downstrokes, should not be reinforced during this time. Wise players can kill two birds with one stone by developing alternate picking technique while they learn scale patterns. to do so, guitarists should choke up on the pick, keep their hand planted on the guitar and alternate continuously without skipping or repeating any strokes. The right hand should rest just above the string being picked. As the right hand moves across the strings, it should slide over and rest upon the strings that are not being played to keep them quiet.

Reference Chord
Every time guitarists learn something new on the fret board they should try to peg it to something familiar. This is the key to developing a good working knowledge of music theory especially when applying guitar theory to the fret board. This pegging idea can be applied to major scales by associating patterns to reference chords. For example, pattern one (as it's usually taught) can be played right around an "E form" barre chord. Pattern two fits together with a "D form" barre chord. Pattern three with a "C form" and so on. If a player knows how to navigate the fretboard with chords, and they associate them to major scale patterns, then they'll be able to instantly jump into the major scale in any position. Learning more about chord forms can be done by researching the "CAGED Template Chord System."

Connecting Major Scale Patterns
After a pattern is completed, one can move to the next position and repeat the whole learning process with the new pattern. After the new position has been memorized, one can go back and review the others before it. this process should be continued until the whole fretboard is covered. Then, guitar players should practice connecting the patterns in both directions across the neck. In other words, pattern one connects to pattern two, two to three, three to four, four to five, and visa versa pattern five connects back into pattern four, four into three, three into two, and two into one. There may even be room to move backward from the pattern one that started everything.

As guitar players move from one pattern to the next, they should notice how a portion of each is reused in the new position. Visualizing how these pieces connect is the key to navigating the fretboard, understanding how music elements are combined, and developing a solid knowledge of guitar music theory.

Transposing Major Scales
Once the whole major scale template has been completed in one key it can be transpose by simply shifting it to a new starting position. Guitarists should be careful not to let the fret numbers throw them off. Instead, they should focus on the shape of the pattern and the feel of the fingering. These patterns should be connected in this new key until the fretboard runs out or it's not possible to play any higher. The area before pattern one begins needs to also be covered. This process should be covered through all twelve keys. When guitar players do this, they'll surely have the patterns down pat!

Play Until Yer Fingers Bleed!
Mr. Desi Serna (Google me!)
http://www.Guitar-Music-Theory.com
Scales, Chords, Progressions, Modes and More

I've read the post and read your knowledge and I'm still confused. Actually, I've done some previews of your products earlier today and the ratings were excellent. I guess I'd better get some of those so I can understand this crazy instrument called the guitar.