Get my head around modes

I really don't know what you mean o.o

there are 7 different modes

E ionian ( E major scale )

E Dorian ( D major scale starting from E )

E Phrygian ( C major scale starting from E)

E lydian ( B major scale starting from E )

E Myxolidian ( A major scale starting from E )

E Aeolian ( G major scale starting from E)

E locrian ( F major scale starting from E )

Or atleast that is how I view it in terms of shapes on the fretboard. Instead of looking at it like this you could look at each scale as being a different scale altogether but I found it easier like this; using scales I already know over different chords, and playing in a different way

So If I were playing a I VIm - IV- V in E but I wanted the E to sound like a IV instead of a "I" I would play E lydian and if I wanted the C#m ( VIm) to sound like idk the ii or the iii I would use C dorian or Phrygian respectively.

Idk how much this is used in popular music or rock, in jazz it sounds killer though :D

A big part about modes is in changing the way you play over a specific chord let's say for example you are doing a I - IIm-IIIm progression in C.

So I'll play C ionian in the I, and then D dorian in the IIm, even though it is the same notes in the scale , you will not be playing CDEFGABC, you will be playing DEFGABCD, mainly stressing the chord tones D-F-A-C and the 9th ( E). Of course you are not limited to just this, you can do whatever you want, but when you look at it that way it changes the way you are playing.

Sorry If I didn't answer your question, I didn't understand your question so well, but prolly one of the theory gods will come along, if you offer them sacrifice of course...

I started those miserable modes about 5 lessons ago.
You have the names incorrect because, based in the key of "C", on 3 whole steps, one half step, two whole steps & one half step.....which means, in the key of "E".....In the key of "E" the space stays the same, but the starting point changes
E- F#-G#-A-B-C#-D# which equals.....Whole-whole-half-whole-whole-whole-then half step to E.

That's why modes are so confusing.

Everything is based on, let's say the black & white piano keys.

The modes in the key of C go in succession, C Ionian, D Dorian, E Phrygian, F Lydian, G Mixolydian, A Aeolian & B Locrian.
Those notes are whole, whole, whole, half, whole, whole, half.......It doesn't matter what the key. The starting point may change as I said earlier, but the spacing remains the same.

I will say understand how to build one is complicated in the beginning, but after that, it makes sense.

I have never found anyone or a book that could explain it so a non musical layman could understand it....including what I have just written.

The best way is to go to a guitar instructor & have that person work with you to understand it.
I learned it in 3 weeks, but that was the way he taught me. Maybe I got lucky.

Um no what I wrote is right. The thing you said : C ionian, D dorian, E phrygian so on and on and on is just the same C major scale starting from a different note, and you would play towards that different note.

But if u were to say: C ionian, C dorian, C phrygian, so on and on and on is what I said. C Ionian and D dorian and all those modes you said are all just the same notes o.o.

C ionian and C dorian are different scales, but over a C minor chord you could use C dorian, or C phrygian, or even C aeolian ( which would be, in order, Bbmajor scale, Ab major scale and Ebmajor scale ). And over a C major chord you could play C ionian ( C major ) or C lydian ( G major) and maybe a C myxolidian ( F major scale )

The E scale has 4 sharps dude.
That's why they teach you in "C" because there are no sharps or flats.

I couldn't get the video to play , but read the video transcript.

http://www.ehow.com/video_2373506_playing-seven-guitar-modes-e.html

Sorry, Tinsmith - Coolnama is right.

Think about it in C... the related modes would be D Dorian, E Phrygian, etc, right? So to put them all in an E root, you'd count backwards the same number of steps. Since D Dorian = 1 whole step above C, E Dorian would start one whole step above D. Same logic with all the rest. The reason he chose E roots is because that's what the original poster asked for.

I find modes much easier to handle as parallel scales: Ionian is the major scale, Lydian is the major scale with a sharp 4, Mixolydian is the major scale with a b7, Aeolian is the natural minor, Dorian is the natural minor with a #6, and Phrygian is the natural minor with b2. Should you need the Locrian, learn the others first - then it's simply Phrygian with b5.

Applying that to the E-root modes, you get:

E Ionian = E major scale
E Dorian = E natural minor (relative to G major) with a #6; since the 6 is C, that's the same notes as D major
E Phrygian = E natural minor with b2; since the 2 is F#, the b2 is F, and it's the same notes as C major
E Lydian = E major with #4; since 4 is A, that becomes A#, and it's the same notes as B major
E Mixolydian = E major with b7; the 7 is D# - making it D natural gives you the same notes as A major
E Aeolian = E natural minor; the same notes as the relative major of G
E Locrian = E Phrygian (same as C) with a b5. Since the 5 is B, that's the same notes as F major

Notes, I understand the naming convention of calling all E is also correct, but the transcript of that video backs up what I stated.

If the video transcription is not correct....explain why. I had never seen that site before & ironically, just by looking it up on the internet, it supported my statement.

You are trying to tell me of the same method I found to not make sense. This is why I stopped learning this process.

The key of E has a G# Phrygian in it not a G. The Major key of E has 4 sharps....yes---no?

I can see why people are so confused....totally conflicting statements.

I'll trust my Instructor.

If you were to name the modes like u did in E you would call them:

E ionian, F# dorian, G# phrygian and so on and on and on.

The things you were naming and the things I was naming were totally different things. E ionian and F# dorian are exactly the same notes ( not the same scales, but you play the same notes with the 4 sharps).

Now E ionian and E dorian are completely different. See like F# dorian is the second one starting from E, then E dorian would be the second one starting from D major, and like G# phrygian would be the third one starting from E, E phrygian would be the third one starting from C major and so on and on and on.

The reason I look at the modes like I do, and not like Noteboat ( parallel scales ) is I think it is much easier to use the same patterns you already know, instead of learning all new ones, but both ways of looking at it are right and both have their advantages.

The site you looked up shows the way most guitarrists look at modes ( no offense intended to anyone) which is flawed.

The Original Poster will be so confused now :oops:

Coolnama & Notes......
at my third lesson I made this statement & asked this question,
"I understand, in the key of C we have, C Ionian, D Dorian, E Phrygian.....etc." "Why does it say in a book I have, C Ionian, C Dorian, C Phrygian......etc?"
He said they are both correct.......I would imagine I will find out further down the line.
I understand that C Dorian is the same key of Bb Maj, so in my case it would be Bb Ionian, C Dorian, D Phrygian, etc....

I understand the method I'm being taught. It makes perfect sense to me.

The book I have is exactly the way you both are talking about.....this I can not understand.
The method I am being taught, I understand. We do everything with shapes.

The guy is a Berkley instructor......he does this for a living.

I'm going to repeat something I said earlier & the more WE explain, I'm afraid the worse it gets.

"I have never found anyone or a book that could explain it so a non musical layman could understand it."

Ok, when you have a scale, there are two parts to the name: the first is a key note (the place you start from), the second describes the pattern. So you can have C major (WWHWWWH pattern, starting from C) or you can have C Dorian (WHWWWHW, starting from C). That would give you the notes C-D-Eb-F-G-A-Bb-C.

You can also take the C scale starting from the second note and get the SAME pattern - you'd end up with WHWWWHW, but starting from D. All you've done is transposed the scale to a new key.

When people talk about 'related' modes, they're talking about the ones that use the same notes - C Ionian, D Dorian, and so on. And when people talk about 'parallel' modes, they're talking about applying the different patterns to the same key note - C Ionian (CDEFGABC), C Dorian (CDEbFGABbC) and so on.

Does that clear things up any?

No Notes....

Starting from the beginning

W-W-W-1/2-W-W-1/2
the next would be & we keep moving down one...

W-W-1/2-W-W-1/2-W

Next
W-1/2-W-W-1/2-W-W

etc....all the way back to C or really, wherever.

You keep staying in the same note even though the key would change mentally. I would have to do more math in my head your way......

In the Key of C, I can play an F Lydian over a F chord & be fine. Doing it the way I've been taught.

I don't need it cleared up.....I understand what I've been taught.

I believe you've been taught a different method & believe me....I will be asking about it. Hopefully it won't bleed over too much, because I'm understanding the fretboard with modes without getting lost when the sequence is changed.

I just got I think what you're saying.......You know them all from one key where as I am learning all of them from several keys, but I can relate these to other keys, majors, minors......yes/no?

F lydian would just be the C major scale played towards F, you could also play F ionian if you wanted to, or F Myxolidian. :O

Right...
The only which seems to be different is Locrian....one fret lower than the root, but all the others can be changed to the corresponding keys. As you were saying.

Yes, you can relate them to other keys. And I was originally taught the same way you were - but I found it was actually more difficult.

If you're trying to play F Lydian, and you're thinking in terms of the C major scale, the odds are pretty good the result won't actually SOUND like F Lydian. What's in your head doesn't matter - it's how the audience perceives it. And the problem with using modes in relative terms (F Lydian = C from the 4th note) is that you're thinking in C, not F.

If you approach F Lydian as the F scale with a raised sixth - playing B natural instead of Bb - then you'll be thinking in an F scale. You'll naturally be referencing everything to F. And that's the only difference between the modes: what the key note is.

I apologize to the author for hi-jackin' his thread.

Please forgive me & try a guitar instructor.