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# my mind has gone and i cant work out this chord

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(@alex_)
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Topic starter

C Eb G B Db

(@noteboat)
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Work from scale degrees:

C=1
Eb=b3
G=5
B=7
Db=b9

because it's got b3, it's minor... because it's got 7, it's a major 7th (instead of b7 for dominant)... and it's got a b9, which is a chord alteration.

I'd probably call it Cm(maj7)b9 or C-maj7b9. It's an odd chord, so you need to be very clear about the natural seventh.

One thing to look at very carefully, though, is your root - it may really be Eb - and then you have Eb-G-B-Db-C, or 1-3-#5-b7-13 (Eb+7/13).

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(@nicktorres)
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depends on context I guess, but it could be an Eb7+5/C

An Eb7 would be Eb Bb C# G

+5 would be Eb B C# G

and then add the C in the bass.....

(@alex_)
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Topic starter

An Eb7 would be Eb Bb C# G

???

I suppose context does matter, its a piece im writing for my music course, and ive got to write a piece linking "Beethovens 5th Symphony" and "Mars" by Holst..

Very tonal and very dissonant pieces..

So in my piece i have merged a C minor and C Phrygian scale, tonal and dissonant at different parts.. so here is my scale.

C Db D Eb F G Ab Bb B C

and one of my main themes, it goes through modulations and transpositions but in this case i would "reduce" it to be that chord.

So i will say it is Cm(maj7)b9, as Tom said, as its the easiest for me to understand. I dont really want to call it an inversion as the main point of my link is they both are fundamentally V - I - V - I (in Mars, its hidden, but its there) so i want bass C chords :D

Thanx for the help and listening to that boring story.

***

Also though, i have a book on Instrumentation and Orchestration, and in the woodwinds, it has about "Flutter tonguing", "Slap Tonguing", "Smack Tone" etc.. and it gives no explaination what needs to be notated for a performer to do this, you wouldnt happen to know, would you? anyone (coughTomcough)

(@noteboat)
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You're making me dig into the orchestration books here, Alex - these aren't techniques I've ever used in arranging.

Flutter tonging = a tremolo made by rolling the tongue, as in the Spanish 'r'. Usually given the German name Flatterzunge, it's more practical on flute than reed instruments.

Slap-tonguing = a single reed technique in which the reed slaps against the reed holder, giving extra 'punch' to the note

Smack tone... I haven't a clue. It's not mentioned in any of the orchestration or arranging books I have, and I don't recall the term ever being mentioned in school.

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(@nicktorres)
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Smack tone has something to do with double reed instruments

(@undercat)
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Smack tone has something to do with double reed instruments

Is there something with two reeds besides an oboe?

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(@noteboat)
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Yep, the bassoon... the English horn... the Oboe D'Amore (the oboe of love, it's bigger than an oboe), ... and who could forget the Heckelphone?

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(@undercat)
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What's weird is when I typed that I was actually thinking of a bassoon... darn old brain playing tricks on me again... :?

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(@alex_)
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Topic starter

Double Reed Effects

One of the woodwind effects that is unique to the double reeds is the smack tone, which can be produced by sucking on the reed in a very noisy mannner. The effect may be achieved in various pitches throughout the range of the instrument.

ok, you mentioned what to mark for flutter tonguing, but not for Slap-tonguing.. what (in whatever language) will i mark to indicate this?

(@noteboat)
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With a T or a + over the note.

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(@alex_)
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Topic starter

this whole woodwind chapter has me confused..

which instruments are double reeds and which are single reeds?

and to clarify..

Slap Tonguing = T or a + above the note
Smack Tone = backwards arrow above the note (i found its symbol)
Flutter Tonguing = a letter 'r' above the note??

(@noteboat)
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There are so many possible instruments (like the Heckelphone I mentioned above) that a comprehensive list would be difficult to create, and probably out of date in short order.

For the usual instrumentation of a modern orchestra, you've got:

Singe reeds:
Clarinet
Bass clarinet

Double reeds:
Oboe
English horn
Bassoon
Double bassoon

Other instruments are added by composers to get specific sounds. Saxophones are the most common addition - they're single reeds.

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(@alex_)
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Topic starter

i cant believe i nearly asked what reed a flute has, lol.