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Open Pattern 1 Minor Pentatonic Scale - E or G?

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 pab
(@pab)
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Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 103
Topic starter  

in the blues you can use book, page 6, it has a diagram of the "E Minor Pentatonic Scale - Pattern 1".
6th string open, 6th string G
5th string open, 5th string B
4th string open, 4th string E
3rd string open, 3rd string A
2nd string open, 2nd string D
1st string open, 1st string G

In Freboard Logic SE book , page 20 (top), it has a diagram of the "G form Open G scale". It is the same diagram as the BYCU book.

Both of these show the same notes, but BYCU indicates it as the E Minor Pentatonic Scale, and the Fretboard Logic book indicates it is the G scale (which i know he means the G Minor Pentatonic Scale).

Which one is right?

pab


   
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(@davidhodge)
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Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 4472
 

It's both the E minor pentatonic scale and the G major pentatonic scale.

Every major scale has a relative minor whose natural minor scale has the same notes and the major. The natural minor starts with the note at the sixth position of the major scale.

G major scale: G A B C D E F#

E natural minor scale: E F# G A B C D

Every major pentatonic scale is also a minor pentatonic scale and the minor pentatonic starts with the fifth note of the major pentatonic.

G major pentatonic scale: G A B D E

E minor pentatonic scale: E G A B D

Hope this helps.

Peace


   
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 pab
(@pab)
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Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 103
Topic starter  

thanks dave. i appreciate your response! just a quick question on it, though. when playing the scale starting on the open 6th string and working towards the first string, is it considered an E minor Pent. scale b/c the first note played is an E, or is it still considered both?

Thanks again!

Paul


   
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(@davidhodge)
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Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 4472
 

Hi again Paul

The convention is to start a scale on its root note, so many people would say that since it starts on E, it's the E minor pentatonic scale. But techically, it's still both.

One of the (many) reasons people tend to find themselves playing riffs that often sound the same is because they are locked into that thinking. And also they tend to practice their scales in linear fashion, starting with the root and moving up to the next root or until they run out of strings withing the span of three or four frets.

The big bonus of being able to think of these notes as being both scales is that you'll never have a problem with modes ever again. Any major scale is seven modal scales. But they're all the same notes. How one targets different notes depending on the chord progressions of a given piece is pretty much the only difference between playing in C major or D dorian, for instance. And even though people will argue until doomsday that these are two different scales, they are still the same notes. It's the tonal center that's different. So if you can get used to playing the same scale but develop the ability to target the notes you want, you can play whatever mode is called for. If you think of any scale as going from root to root, it's hard to develop your ear to do that.

I hope this helps more than confuses. Tom will be able to explain it a lot better, I'm sure! :wink:

Peace


   
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 pab
(@pab)
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Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 103
Topic starter  

thanks dave. your post made perfect sense. i've read that it is important, in scales, to play all the notes in the position that belong to that scale and not just from root to root. i believe that is what you're saying.

thanks again!

paul


   
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(@almann1979)
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Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 1281
 

i have searched many forums for an answer like that.. and even posted a similar question here before i read this. thanks.. my mind is at rest. so, by knowing the full scale pattern, your mode is just determined by the root note you choose to play around? it is not a long, thought out process then.... so the A minor scale at the 12th fret is in fact also E phrygian? i hope im on a roll.. it would be terribley embaressing to be way off mark?

"I like to play that guitar. I have to stare at it while I'm playing it because I'm not very good at playing it."
Noel Gallagher (who took the words right out of my mouth)


   
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(@desi-serna)
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Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 4
 

The music theory behind major and minor pentatonic scales can be a little confusing. The fretboard patterns for both guitar scales are the same. Pentatonic pattern one in the open position can produce either an E minor or G major tonality. It all depends on what the scale is being played over.

If you're playing over an E minor chord, or chord progression that revolves around an E minor chord, then your ear will hear the E note in the scale as the root. The E note is the first note in pentatonic scale pattern one. When the other scale tones draw to and resolve on the first note in this pattern it produces a minor sound. This minor pentatonic application can be heard in the song "Susie Q" by Creedence Clearwater Revival, "Back in Black" by AC/DC, and many others.

If you're playing over an G major chord, or chord progression that revolves around a G major chord, then your ear will hear the G note in the scale as the root. The G note is the second note in pentatonic scale pattern one. When the other scale tones draw to and resolve on the second note in this pattern it produces a major sound. This major pentatonic application can be heard in the song "Wish You Were Here" by Pink Floyd, "Honky Tonk Women" by The Rolling Stones, and many others.

So both major and minor pentatonic guitar scales are based on the same fretboard patterns. The major/minor tonality is caused by which scale tone is functioning as the root. And the root is determined by what chord or chord progression you're playing the scale over.

I hope this free guitar theory lesson clears up the difference behind the two pentatonic sounds.


   
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