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pentatonic?

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(@improvgtrplyr)
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Joined: 18 years ago
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Topic starter  

ok....i see the relation of 1 2 d3 5 6 to dorian...we're good there

i don't see what the major pentatonic has to do with it

1, 2 and 5 are are major and minor. 6 is minor by nature. what's left? 3 and that's flat.

will someone back me up on this or show me where i'm wrong?


   
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(@noteboat)
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Joined: 21 years ago
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"A major Dorian" is just plain silly.

Who said that? Not me. Yours is the first reference to "major Dorian" in the thread.

That was my understanding from improvgtrplyr's post - that the C was natural for Dorian, so to make it major it would be C#. I interpreted C# as making it A major dorian (I've read the post twice more, and I still think that's what's implied)

I think taking any pentatonic pattern and naming it after a diatonic scale just introduces confusion. What makes A-B-C-E-F# a major pentatonic Dorian? Why wouldn't it be a major pentatonic melodic minor? That's the identical step selection from a different scale, with an identical result.

By referencing a diatonic scale, you indicate it's a subset - when really I think it's just a coincidence, because five notes can be a subset of many different scales.

A better way to name artificial scales is by reference to an basic scale with an alteration. Say "Dorian #4" or "Mixolydian b2" and everyone will know what tones you're talking about... so I'd call this a minor pentatonic #6, rather than reaching for a name that implies some other scale relationship.

Guitar teacher offering lessons in Plainfield IL


   
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(@slejhamer)
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Joined: 19 years ago
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A better way to name artificial scales is by reference to an basic scale with an alteration. Say "Dorian #4" or "Mixolydian b2" and everyone will know what tones you're talking about... so I'd call this a minor pentatonic #6, rather than reaching for a name that implies some other scale relationship.

Fair enough! Thanks for adding that. :)

"Everybody got to elevate from the norm."


   
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(@improvgtrplyr)
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Joined: 18 years ago
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Topic starter  

i have some idea how theory works but it's been a while since i've had any working knowlege of it. so i need this explained in a simple way. i feel i should be paying you guys for this :)

the reason i'm trying to understand is because i can pharse my music better playing 2 note per string runs. but the good old pentatonics are getting old.

i know there's something to this....i've played minor pentratonic to chords i didn't know and it sounded like something spainish.

where do you get the formula to call it a minor pentatonic #6. is it from the major scale like chords?


   
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(@noteboat)
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Joined: 21 years ago
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Yes. Altered scale tones are always in comparison to the major scale of the same root - that keeps things from getting confused. If you say #6, and you're in C, that's always A#. Otherwise you run into problems with key - what if you were in natural minor? Then the 6th would be Ab, and #6 would be A.. but changing to melodic minor would make that same note A#. By using the major scale, there's never a question what tone we're talking about.

I'd actually made a typo - it should be "major pentatonic #6"... sorry if anyone got confused.

That would mean taking the major pentatonic scale (1-2-3-5-6) and rasing the sixth tone. Since the 6th of the major pentatonic in A would be F, you'd use F# instead.

Guitar teacher offering lessons in Plainfield IL


   
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(@improvgtrplyr)
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That would mean taking the major pentatonic scale (1-2-3-5-6) and rasing the sixth tone. Since the 6th of the major pentatonic in A would be F, you'd use F# instead.

the 6 in A major pentatonic is F#. infact F# is the relative minor. you must be wrong.

...and the 3rd? if we're relating to the A major scale the third (C) is sharp too.

A major scale: A B C# D E F# Ab

A pentatonic : A B C# E F#


   
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(@improvgtrplyr)
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Topic starter  

hello? noteboat?....i see you're posting in other threads...you've must have seen my comment. what's going on here?

i asked you before if your fomula was from the the major scale because i could see that the notes were wrong.

i don't know much about theory but i do know the major scale in all the keys. that's just good musicianship. as someone who writes a book on music theory should you not be an expert on the subject? there's no excuse to make a mistake on something as basic as the major scale.


   
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(@noteboat)
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Sorry for the confusion, and I wasn't ignoring you - Saturday's a big teaching day and I don't read all the posts at once!

Yep, I totally blew it.

Chords and scales are always expressed in numbers against the major scale of the same root, so A Dorian would be written as 1-2-b3-4-5-6-b7.

The subset A-B-C-E-F# would be 1-2-b3-4-6.

But our major pentatonic is 1-2-3-5-6 - so the first place I screwed up was in making the 'correction' to major pentatonic - it's a minor pentatonic.

The second error is calling it "#6" - I should have said "raised 6th". In Am, the sixth is F, and it's raised to F# (which is the natural 6th in the key of A)

Guitar teacher offering lessons in Plainfield IL


   
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(@improvgtrplyr)
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Topic starter  

Sorry for the confusion, and I wasn't ignoring you - Saturday's a big teaching day and I don't read all the posts at once!

yeah....i thought you were ingnoring me. and sorry if i came off as a critic but you had me questioning things i've known for years. i read your post like 10 times. thought i was going crazy :roll:

anyways you gave me good advice before. if i were you i'd check the answers carefully. it's your reputation on the line.

thanks for clearing things up


   
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