Sight Reading

You don't really mean G# do you, Scrybe? :shock: You can't! There's no key signature for G# - It contains 8 sharps including a double sharp. That's why there's no key signature for it. Was it just an example you thought up?

Anyway, you need to 'think yourself' into any key so that when you see any note that's to be sharped or or flatted by the key signature, you automatically do it. Easier said than done so you should practise with the least number of sharps in the key signature (G maj/Em) until you can do it just for that key, If you do it enough, you eventually see every 'F' note as F#. Even without thinking, your fingers eventually automatically reach out for F#, rather than F. F just feels 'feels' wrong when you're thinking in G major.
So keep practising in C too, so that you can mentally slip in and out of the key. You don't want to lose the ability to think in C. That would be no gain at all :lol:

After you've mastered G, you graduate to the key with 2 sharps, D, then 3 - and then maybe do F with one flat. Anyway, gradually work your way through the guitar friendly keys until you feel comfortable with them - then branch out to the more obscure keys - but leave G# well alone :)

I'll be charitable, and assume Scrybe is talking about G#m (5 sharps). But all I can really share is how I teach reading, and why I put things in the order I do... for the most part, I use the Mel Bay series - partly because that's the method I learned from, and partly because the sequence still makes sense to me, after experimenting with many others over the years. I don't use this sequence with all students, but I do with probably 90% of them...

1. Learn to read in C major in open position. This is a must for anything else - you need to know the basic note names.

2. Learn Am in open position. This introduces G# and F# notes, and sharps are easy on guitar, especially when they're accidentals within measures.

3. Learn to read in G and Em in open position. Now you have to remember key signatures - and the key here is to LOOK AT THE KEY SIGNATURE FIRST!. There's a reason it's right up front, even before you know the time signature. Get used to saying "I'm in G" and finger accordingly. You're also exposed to the B-D third in a higher position, and the idea that notes can be played in more than one place. (This takes you through the end of Mel Bay book 1)

4. Learn the key of F in open position. Flats are a little harder to deal with, because you're changing strings for the third string Bb. Als0 learn Dn.

5. Learn the key of D. Now you're in second position - there are no 'natural' first fret notes in D. We first learn it with open strings, then in 'closed' position. We also learn Bm at this point. (This takes you to the end of Mel Bay book 2)

6. learn the key of A. This can be done in two positions - open, reaching up for the A on the 1st string 5th fret, and 2nd position, reaching for the G# (in one of two places) You also learn the relative minor of F#.

7. Learn the key of Bb. At this point you start in first position, but graduate to third position, which is important for....

8. The key of Eb/Cm, which I teach in third position almost exclusively.

9. The key of Ab, which moves you into third position, and for the first time you have more accidentals than natural notes. (This finishes Mel Bay book 3)

10. The key of E. First in 1st position, then fourth.

11. At this point, I discard Mel Bay's sequence, and skip ahead to page 40 or so of book 4 - we learn to play in C and Am in fifth position. I think it's important to get the 'mid neck' down before doing other keys. So I take almost all of Mel Bay's book 4 out of sequence. And at that point I also shift away from methods, and into tunes - you've already learned to read in 4 accidentals, sharps or flats... and there aren't that many tunes in B, Db, or F#/Gb. So at that point I start focusing on the mechanics and rhythms that Mel Bay overlooks or give a short shift to - like economy picking, subdivided triplets etc. And for that stuff I bring in a bunch of outside the book tunes, and we concentrate on the student's genre. Besides, books 5 through 7 mostly concentrate on theory stuff that I've already covered in lessons.

But really, the best cure for reading shortcomings is to read more. Read all the time. I read new stuff every day, in lots of different keys - there's really no other way to get/keep up your reading chops.

I picked G# for the sake of my Homer Simpson joke... :roll:

Thanks for the replies though. I've recently been using the Bill Leavitt Berklee book as I was finding my Real Books favour certain keys and I ideally want an all-round knowledge of all well-used keys (i.e. not just sax keys...), but you're not supposed to read it to the point of memorization and I was thinking it's gonna be difficult getting to the end of it successfully when I'm fluffing so much on the first few pages. Will have to check the Mel Bay books - are they single line studies? I've been doing some classical stuff on my acoustic (Sor, etc., studies, but again am finding there are some pages I really just have to skip completely for sight reading - between odd rhythms and unfamiliar keys, some of them are just too difficult to sight read right now), and the Leavitt for my electric single-line stuff.

The Leavitt is aimed at beginners, and seems quite interesting in that it gives you two lines or so in any given key, starting with C major, before moving on to adding # or b to the key sig for the next two lines, and so on. Each 'set' ramps up either they keys sigs quite a bit, or the rhythms quite a bit. I should probably go through and check how fast the rhythms and key sigs get really complicated and use that as a guide to whether to continue with this method or find something more suitable. I'm using book one, which is all keys in open position. I'm thinking my fingerings may also be inefficient, too.*

Thing is, I'm also doing some rhythm studies separately, and I'm doing really good at reading those. It's just when I get to the mixing of rhythms, dots, key sigs, and chords that I run into problems... (or any three of the aforementioned) :?

* It isn't that I haven't practiced fingerings in this position (uh....a bit), but when I'm playing through the Leavitt and it e.g. says play and E note on the 4th string, followed by an A note on the 3rd string, I'm really not sure which finger I'm supposed to use for that A note. Like, I'm guessing it's partly a matter of choice based on what's coming up next, but is there any logic to what I should do here? It isn't so bad at 60bpm, but I don't want to be reading at 60bpm forever. Is there an efficient 'rule' (or set of rules) for that kind of stuff? I'm finding it quite easy to deviate a lot form scale fingering patterns. And yeah, trying to remember to stay on my scale patterns while also trying to decode the dots and execute is leaving me feeling a bit overwhelmed. Partly because I suspect that some of my current successes will turn out to be bad habits when I turn up the tempo.

Oh, and Mike has me running scales in the first five frets, no open strings. Could I not simply 'transpose' the Leavitt text rules up a fret? (i.e. Leavitt says play in open position - first four frets including open strings, could I continue with the text playing the same notes as written but using the first five frets no open strings? I'm more familiar with those scale fingerings). Thoughts?

Massive thanks for posts guys, I appreciate it. I'm having a bit of difficulty maintaining daily practice in a structured way on this. I sometimes feel I'm reading daily with little improvement (this was particularly the case when using the Real Books - one day I could be playing five easy ballads or slow blues tunes in C major and the next I'm on something like A Night In Tunisia...even keeping the bpm the same from day to day, it really felt like some days were total killers and others a breeze, so I had little way of accurately assessing my progress with it)

Oh, and I retried with the Leavitt with pauses between each new key sig where I stopped long enough to name the key and its #/b notes before proceeding. That went a lot better, reading-wise, though I'm sure he means for me to read straight through as the ends of bars sound like they're modulating to the next key signature. Sounds really weird to play it and then to stop in the middle.

You don't really mean G# do you, Scrybe? :shock: You can't! There's no key signature for G# - It contains 8 sharps including a double sharp. That's why there's no key signature for it. Was it just an example you thought up?

Funny you should mention that....cos I had meant to post asking about that a few weeks back.

And on "thinking myself into the key"......am I supposed to be mentally thinking of each note I play when reading in relation to the tonic? Right now, I'm reading it as "I'm in the G.......G..B....C...D....C....E....G.." y'know, naming each note mentally as I'm about to play it. I'm hearing the movement as I play it, and immediately sense when things aren't sounding right, but I'm not thinking "I'm in G.....root....third...fourth..fifth...etc" I must be hearing it on some level as I'm recognising the movement, but should I be trying to, um, hone in more on the relation each note I'm reading/playing has to the tonic? Bear in mind my main interest in music and reading music is jazz. Dunno how much that matters, if at all.

God, do I wish I'd had actual music lessons as a kid...

I haven't used Leavitt's reading studies, although I do use his Berklee method books with some students. The Mel Bay series isn't just single lines - there's chord reading in it too, and from fairly early on. For a good single line book, I'd recommend "Sight to Sound" by Leon White.

Efficient fingering depends on context, speed, and phrasing. If I have to notes in a row on the same fret, but on adjacent strings, I'll either use two fingers or I'll 'roll' one finger to hit both notes. If I've got two notes in the same fret, but they skip a string, I'll almost always use two different fingers. Sometimes that means a momentary position shift, because you don't want to get caught having to reach back for a note and discover your first finger is already occupied.

Yes, you can do any open string exercise in closed position - as long as it doesn't have the low E... there's no way to get that note except an open string. I'll often take a piece and read it in several positions - you're really only limited by the highest and lowest notes. So if you've got a piece in A that ranges from the A below the staff to the A above, you could play it in first, second, fourth, or fifth position. Any higher and you can't get the low A. Third position wouldn't be a good choice, because you've only got one note (D) in the third fret in the key of A.

And on "thinking myself into the key"......am I supposed to be mentally thinking of each note I play when reading in relation to the tonic? Right now, I'm reading it as "I'm in the G.......G..B....C...D....C....E....G.." y'know, naming each note mentally as I'm about to play it. I'm hearing the movement as I play it, and immediately sense when things aren't sounding right, but I'm not thinking "I'm in G.....root....third...fourth..fifth...etc" I must be hearing it on some level as I'm recognising the movement, but should I be trying to, um, hone in more on the relation each note I'm reading/playing has to the tonic?

No - Don't overthink it. Don't try to consciously think in terms of what relationship the notes have to the key. In fact, as you become more proficient, you don't even think in terms of note names, because if reading in real time, i.e., 'sight reading' you don't have time to mentally give every note its name. Of course, poor beginners not only have to think the note name on the top line, for example, as F (or F#) but might even have to precede it with "every good boy deseves FUN".

NoteBoat mentioned a book - "Sight to Sound". I don't know the book, but the title says it all. That's exactly what you should be striving for. Your eyes see a black dot and your fingers make the right sound from the right place. This part of the process is purely mechanical and the goal is to eventually eliminate the middleman/woman, who should be free to take care of more artistic aspects of playing such as phrasing, style, etc. Sounds a bit ZEN doesn't it? :)

Yup, very Zen indeed! Me liketh.

I'm okay with naturals from middle C to the A above the stave, but the multiple ledger lines are a bit tricky. Went okay today, though - giving myself a slight pause between key sig changes to just name the new key and what notes are being sharped/flatted makes it a lot more successful. Heh heh, was even finding myself being able to read ahead by a bar or so. Chords are still tricky, though. But I may well take a lead from the Leavitt book by writing my own chord reading studies to get some extra practice in there (guaranteed if I did this today, a week from now I'll have forgotten what I've written provided I put it to one side for the week).

So, will the stuff like looking at a score and seeing an interval of a perfect 5th (for e.g.) and recognising it as such come as a natural by-product of reading fluency? I can look at something like an F major arp and recognise it as such straight away (that's part what's been allowing me to look ahead today).

Thanks for the comments guys, appreciated. :mrgreen:

Chords are always tricky. It does get easier with time, and you'll start to recognize the common voicings - even if they've got five or six strings. But the main reason that chords will always be tricky is that a good portion of pieces that are written for guitar in standard notation aren't written or edited by guitarists. I run into charts all the time that have voicings that are unplayable, either because of extreme reach, or because they pack too many notes into the low register - a four note chord with bottom space F as the soprano simply can't be done in standard tuning.

Now you may run into a chart like that in a gig situation... I know I have. I've learned that the proper thing to do is to not call it to anyone's attention - for all you know, the leader wrote the chart. I've even been faced with an unplayable chart and been asked "can you play this? Because my last guitarist said he couldn't". I just look it over, assure him it's not a problem, and proceed to get as close as I can to what I think is intended.

Now you may run into a chart like that in a gig situation... I know I have. I've learned that the proper thing to do is to not call it to anyone's attention - for all you know, the leader wrote the chart. I've even been faced with an unplayable chart and been asked "can you play this? Because my last guitarist said he couldn't". I just look it over, assure him it's not a problem, and proceed to get as close as I can to what I think is intended.
Lmaoooo, thx for the tip!