Modes Simplified -[/size=24]
i've met so many people (myself included) who were way too overcomplicating the idea of using and playing modes on a guitar. People start talking, dorian, and aeolian, and mixolydian, but by thinking in names, and not in notes, it's adding a new layer of things for your mind to remember. For example: (i'm going to use the key of C as an example)
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
C major C D E F G A B C
maj min min maj (7) min 7b5 root
(one ocatave up)
Now, every major has a natural minor, which is the 6th of root. In the case of C this would be A. So if you wanted to play in a A minor scale, then you are really playing C major too, but your starting and ending on a different note, by starting from A and playing through the scale and ending on an A, then it will sound minor, Whereas if you start on C and end on C it will sound major. The modes are:
C D E F G A B C (ionian - major) 1-2-3-4-5-6-7
D E F G A B C D (dorian - minor) 1-2-b3-4-5-6-b7
E F G A B C D E (phrygrian - minor) 1-b2-b3-4-5-b6-b7
F G A B C D E F (lydian - major) 1-2-3-#4-5-6-7
G A B C D E F G (mixolydian - 7th) 1-2-3-4-5-6-b7
A B C D E F G A (aeolian - minor) 1-2-b3-4-5-b6-b7
B C D E F G A B (locrian - 7b5) 1-b2-b3-4-b5-b6-b7
If, for example you wanted to play in D minor, you could play a C major scale, using D as the root note, and you would be playing a mode of D minor, which would be the D dorian mode. Now if you wanted A minor, again you could play C major, but using A as your root note, and you will be playing A aeolian. Get it yet?
If you want to play alot of blues and blues influenced music (like me) you hear alot about the mixolydian mode. Now, a basic twelve bar progression is based of seventh chords:
|A7 |D7 |
|A7 |// |
|D7 |// |
|A7 |// |
|E7 |D7 |
|A7 |E7 |
Look up at the chart and see what mode fits with 7th chords. It's the mixolydian mode, so obviously a mode based on dominant 7s and a progression that's all 7th chords will sound good together.
Now...try to figure out which major you would want to play if you wanted A mixolydian. Well, think this, the C major, gives the G mixolydian, now which scale degree (number, 1 2 3 etc...) is G of C...
C D E F G A B C
it's the fifth, so if you want the mixolydian mode of A, which major scale has A as the fifth note.
D E F G A
I found it much easier to learn the major scale on my guitar, and learn the pattern in one key, then learn how to transpose that one scale to different keys, and that's all modes are, so if you just think, what major scale am i playing, you can play any mode you want, it's important to understand the names and that they are all different scales, but are derived from a simple idea.
For those of you who don't know, the minor pentantonic scale is also the major pentatonic scale...
Watch - If you play an A minor pentatonic scale, your also playing a C major pentatonic scale. Look back to the diagram above for reference...
If you know the minor pentatonic scale pattern, you know that if you play a minor pentatonic at the 5th fret, your playing an A minor pentatonic. BUT.....if you count up 2 from A - B - C you now have the same scale, but it's also a C major penatonic, A is the 6th of C, so any key you want to play in, if you want a major pentatonic just think 2 scale degrees ahead, to the third of the root. Or vice versa, if you know the major pentatonic scale think back two, to the 6th.
Everything depends on the chords you want to play over. If your playing over a:
Am - C/G - F
1 3 6
The root note of this progression is A minor, so think back, A minor is also C major, so play your C major scale over this, it will match...
But what if the progression is:
G - D - C
5 2 1
Again you can play a C major scale and it will match
I sat around confused and without little progress in the puzzle to understanding modes until i discovered this principle, So music theory becomes extremely useful once you want to learn how to solo, or how to put songs and progressions together. Music theory can be your friend and your enemy, But it never hurts to put a little effort into learning it. Thanks for taking the time to read this, hope it helps...
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Thanks for posting that was interesting as just last night I was wanting to make up a song using a similar way to find the chords for a chord structure, maybe you can read what i did below and give me some pointers where i am doing things right/wrong, thanks if you have time to do this as it's a long post too.
So I chose to start with E aeolian. E aeolian is the 6th of all the modes and next I want to find the chords I could play under the mode, but first the notes of the E aeolian mode.
So if I next find what major scale E aeolian is related to.
I find that E is the 6th note of G major(Ionian) scale(mode),
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
G A B C D E F#
So I work from the 6th note and follow through the notes 6 7 1 2 3 4 5 and that gives me the notes for E aeolian
6 7 1 2 3 4 5
E F# G A B C D
then renumber them as my E aeolian mode 1-7
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
E F# G A B C D
now i've got the notes I find the chords and if they are minor or major, I do it like this, 1-7 are the notes and also the chords I to VII and whether they are major or minor depend on the mode of each, so starting in order from (E)aeolian I run through the order of the modes relating each to the notes like this
1(E)aeolian(6th mode)(minor mode) so chord I is(E minor)
2(F#)locrian(7th mode)(minor mode) so chord II is(F# minor)
3(G)ionain(1st mode)(major mode) so chord III is(G major)
4(A)dorain(2nd mode)(minor mode) so chord IV is(A minor)
5(B)phrygian(3rd mode)(minor mode) so chord V is(B minor)
6(C)lydian(4th mode)(major mode) so chord VI is(C major)
7(D)mixolydian(5th mode)(major mode) so chord VII is (D major)
so ive got
notes E aeolian = (1)E (2)F# (3)G (4)A (5)B (6)C (7)D
and chord structure (I)Em (II)F#m (III)G (IV)Am (V)Bm (VI)C (VII)D
and I can play over the chord structure the modes off each of the notes of E aeolian in order
E aeolian = E F# G A B C D
F# locrian = F# G A B C D E
G ionian = G A B C D E F#
A dorian = A B C D E F# G
B phrygian = B C D E F# G A
C lydian = C D E F# G A
D mixolydian = D E F# G A B C
I may be well off but it sort of makes sense and sounds like it works to me, if anyone else can come up with something, like how they work things out for choosing chords structures and what modes to play over them please post some ideas for me,
cheers.
gaz.
Though, technically, if I've got this right, your D, as a 5 in the major key, should be a D7 and your F#m, as a 7 in the major, should be an F#7b5 to be in key. Obviously a D is still going to be in key if you don't add the b7, but the F#m isn't going to be in key without the b5.
It might still sound good in a song, especially with the right resolution, but not technically "in key".
Playing around with it a bit, a #5 resolving to a 5 in a minor key sounds kind of forlorn, and works pretty well in a minor key flavor. This is what it would tend to do with your chosen chords. Say if you had a 1 5 2 1 progression. Thus keeping with your aeolian mode.
While a #5 resolving up to a b7 and 8 sound kind of hopeful, giving it more of a major key feel; it might work well in a transition from a minor to a major key in a bridge...
Sorry, I'm in song writing mode today.
Furious_b, you're right about how the modes are related to major scales... and it's an easy way to remember which notes are in each mode.
The thing I'd caution against is oversimplification - a mode is not the same thing as the related scale, even though they contain the exact same notes. We've had an awful lot of discussion on modes here, so I'm not going to get real involved in this thread, but you might want to read:
Guitar teacher offering lessons in Plainfield IL
To Gary....
You have the right concepts as far as what you've worked out with an E aeolian mode/progression. Your also right in saying that G major, is also E aeolian, just played from the E not the G.
But you must remember, Aeolian is minor, therefore your root chord of your progression should be an Em, or some sort of Em - (Em7, Em+9) something along those lines, but it needs the b3 of E, which is that G...
So if you wanted something where you could play E aeolian over, try something like:
F#m7b5 - B7 - Em
This is a 2 5 1, a common progression that is found in jazz and lots of other music. The Em is functioning as your 1 chord, so you can play your E aeolian over it.
Where you wrote out your modes, you didn't apply the dominant 7th on the 5 chord, and the 7b5 on the 7 chord. Also, You want to play in E minor, yet your writing chords out as if it was in G major, i meant to explain that modes are based off of major scales, but if you want to play in E minor, you don't want chords that are based off G major, you want chords in E minor, right? Though E minor is essentially G major the chords are the same, but as far as when to use major a minor chords depends on the scale degree, that's what gives each key a different sound
Modes are scales, all with a different sound and feel, but they are derived from major scales, that is what i intended to explain.
The biggest factor in picking which modes to play all depends on which chords you intend on playing over...
For example...
Say you want to play over a G D7 C progression, as a 1 5 4
you could play a G major scale over this, and it will sound right
But if you wanted to play Em B7 F#m7b5 - 1 5 2
You could also play G major, but call it E minor because in this case that is how it would be acting.
I hope this has helped, if you have any questions feel free to e-mail me at [email protected]
slothrob, thanks for your input very interesting.
when I was working this out I could not decide on whether the 7th chord of the major scale of G should be F#m(as Locrian is minor) or F#diminished. As I read somewhere the formula goes
I to VII
Maj-min-min-Maj-Maj-min-diminished
and I think I am right in saying that if it is F#diminished then it would have the b5 you were saying about. Hope you don't mind me asking but how do you work out if a major chord should be a major7?
thanks again
gaz.
(as you can see I am still learning, I was ok playing by ear then I decided it was time to learn some theory!!!, now i'm hooked on learning more!!)
thanks furious_b ( i think we posted about the same time there and I did not see your reply straight off sorry mate!)
But you must remember, Aeolian is minor, therefore your root chord of your progression should be an Em,
but thats what i thought i did by starting the Em Chord progression on Em but taken from the 6th of Gmajor.(sorry if i do not understand this right as below).
So if I next find what major scale E aeolian is related to.
I find that E is the 6th note of G major(Ionian) scale(mode),
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
G A B C D E F#
So I work from the 6th note and follow through the notes 6 7 1 2 3 4 5 and that gives me the notes for E aeolian
6 7 1 2 3 4 5
E F# G A B C D
then renumber them as my E aeolian mode 1-7
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
E F# G A B C D
now i've got the notes I find the chords and if they are minor or major, I do it like this, 1-7 are the notes and also the chords I to VII and whether they are major or minor depend on the mode of each, so starting in order from (E)aeolian I run through the order of the modes relating each to the notes like this
1(E)aeolian(6th mode)(minor mode) so chord I is(E minor)
2(F#)locrian(7th mode)(minor mode) so chord II is(F# minor) (+added on this post should be F#diminished)
3(G)ionain(1st mode)(major mode) so chord III is(G major)
4(A)dorain(2nd mode)(minor mode) so chord IV is(A minor)
5(B)phrygian(3rd mode)(minor mode) so chord V is(B minor)
6(C)lydian(4th mode)(major mode) so chord VI is(C major)
7(D)mixolydian(5th mode)(major mode) so chord VII is (D major)
so ive got
notes E aeolian = (1)E (2)F# (3)G (4)A (5)B (6)C (7)D
and chord structure (I)Em (II)F#dim(added for this post) (III)G (IV)Am (V)Bm (VI)C (VII)D
thanks again- "I am doing my best to understand some theory"
I have a mate that I play guitar with and we try and work things out between us, but a forum like this is an amazing resource of peoples knowledge. and i'm grateful!!"
Gary-
The V in the major scale would be the maj7. So, as you write it:
Maj-min-min-Maj-Maj(7)-min-diminished
Sometimes it's written this way and other times without the 7. I'm not sure why.
But the V7 is nice, particularly in a chord progression that has a V to I transition. I think this is because the 7 in the V7 is a fourth of the I and resolves to the 5 of the I, but that's little more than a guess.
thankyou
:)
My input on this matter:
It is easier to learn the modes in this way. Just find the major scale, and work from there. However...in the long run, this isn't the best idea. You should eventually want to think of D Dorian as minor with a natural 6, rather than C major starting on D. A song written in D Dorian is in D, not in C. A very good example of this is blues: If you are playing G blues, you're basically playing G mixo. The G7 chord in this progression is static, the song sounds finished when you get to it, and most importantly, it DOESN'T want to resolve to C major. So I try to learn all the modes the same way I did the major scale: as their own seperate scale.
Just something to ponder.
(PS: I skimmed the other threads here, sorry if I'm repeating someone)
A3 red, C5 red, F4 blue, F5 red. Bitches.
