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Who needs scales? memorize fretboard?

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(@jonast)
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Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 4
Topic starter  

I've come across alot of these websites (ex: http://www.fret2fret ) that promise to teach you the entire fretboard in 60 min, and that their method beats the "old-fashioned" scalepatterns..

Sounds nice, but I have my doubts. I haven't really checked out the sites, because they all want money(of course), but do any of you have experience with this technique, wich is supposed to be alot easier than learning scales the regular way?

http://www.fret2fret.com


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(@greybeard)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 5899
 

Ok, so they teach you the fretboard in 60 minutes.

Learning the fretboard is like learning the positions of the gears on a manual gearbox in a car - it doesn't actually help you to drive. It's knowledge that you can use, within a far wider range of knowledge.

Try using fretboard warrior - it's free and it's fun (Fretboard Warrior).

I started with nothing - and I've still got most of it left.
Did you know that the word "gullible" is not in any dictionary?
Greybeard's Pages
My Articles & Reviews on GN


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(@noteboat)
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Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 4933
 

I haven't used it. But I was curious, and just spent a bit of time reading through three different message boards of people complaining about it.... here's the thoughts on it I've got as a result...

Two things are certain:

1. His claims are outrageous. You will not "create incredible lush sounding chords", "play spine tingling lead guitar", or play "perfectly and naturally". You will not "play with blurring speed and never miss a note". You will not "play all your favorite songs before next week rolls around", and none of the other ridiculous promises will come true for you either. What it will do (apparently) is teach you the note names on the fretboard.

2. It's a mnemonic system for learning the note names on the fretboard. I don't know what his particular mnemonic is, but it keys everything to the sixth string. That makes it a "reference" method.

Let's put the first one in perspective. Knowing the note names is important, and it will help you advance as a guitarist. But ONLY knowing the note names won't help. You're still going to need all the scales and theory and whatnot to put it into practice. It's like saying surgeons need to know anatomy... so here's a quick way to remember the names of the cranial nerves. Now take your scalpel and go operate!

For the mnemonic part, you can group fretboard memorization methods into two big categories: those that teach "by reference", and those that use brute force. I can always tell the guitarists who use reference methods, because there's a hesitation when I ask them to play a note on a certain string... before they can do that, they have to figure out the same note on some other string, and then use the mnemonic method to move to the right note. By some standards, they "know" the fretboard - that is, they always find the right note, or give the correct name for the note they're on. Eventually, anyway. But they have to work their way to it - if I ask for F on the second string, they'll find F on the fourth string and use an octave pattern to find the second string F, or if I ask for C on the fourth string, they'll first move to the 12th fret D and "count down" to C, etc.

In the long run, brute force is a far better method for mastering the guitar. Spend 15 minutes a day working on it (I made flash cards with note names when I was learning), and in a few week's you'll know it.

Oh, one more thing about his pitch... you get "$313.70 in free bonus gifts". All but one (Fretboard Warrior) have list prices next to them. Which means with a calculator you can figure out how much he thinks Fretboard Warrior is worth - turns out to be $29.95. Which makes it a bit overpriced... Fretboard Warrior is free, and Fretboard Warrior Plus is sold for $15. On top of that, Fretboard Warrior is for memorizing the fretboard... if his method works so well, why is he including another method that does the same thing???

Guitar teacher offering lessons in Plainfield IL


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(@kingpatzer)
Noble Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 2198
 

I'll add my $.02.

Reference methods are limiting when you start dealing with more complex music.

Let's say you are using a reference method to find an Ebb above middle C on the 5th string. You start with your system, maybe you find that the open string is E, and you know the fifth is C from your mnemonic, and you find that by making the "power chord" shape in your mind, and you use some other mnemonic to move down 4 more frets to E. But let's say that your particular piece of music is calling for an Ebb. So now you have to move up 2 frets in the other direction.

You have had to make a minimum of 5 references in your mind: you know the low E; remembering the 5th is C; imagining the power chord shape; making the jump to E; making the move to the bb.

Or, you could know that Ebb on the 5th string is the 5th fret for a total of 0 reference, just one thing you know. To be fair, most people would probably know that Eb is the 6th fret and then flatten that, so that's really 1 reference.

Now, imagine that you're playing with a group, and they ask you to do some diad comping over some chords. They ask you to play the 3rd and the extention, the piano player and base player will take care of the rest of the harmony. They toss the chart up in front of you, it's a nice jazz tune with 2 chord changes per measure, mostly 7ths, but the occassional 6, 9 and flat 11 shows up as well. The band leader sets the tempo . . . around 160 bpm and off you go . . . .

How far are you going to get trying to find all those extentions by reference?

You need to know the fretboard note names, and how those names relate to the major scale instantly.

It's like learning multiplication as a kid. Sure you can add up the numbers and get the right answer, but you'll never get far in math if that's all you can do. You sure as heck won't manage to pass a timed test with no calculator . . . so just like you have to learn your multiplication tables, you have to learn your fretboard in relation to the major scales.

Brut memorization is hard work. It's tedious and boring. And it's worth every minute of time no matter how long it takes because of what it frees you to do as a musician once you've done it.

"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." -- HST


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(@ricochet)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 7850
 

It's like saying surgeons need to know anatomy... so here's a quick way to remember the names of the cranial nerves. Now take your scalpel and go operate!
On Old Olympus' Towering Tops, A Finn And German Viewed Some Hops.
(Olfactory, Optic, Oculomotor, Trochlear, Trigeminal, Abducens, Facial, Auditory (vestibulocochlear), Glossopharyngeal, Vagus, Accessory (spinal accessory), Hypoglossal.

There you go. You're ready to start cutting, and it didn't take anywhere near 60 minutes! :D

"A cheerful heart is good medicine."


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(@misanthrope)
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Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 2268
 

It has text highlighted in yellow, steer clear.

I know that sounds dim and ignorant, but really, it's a rule of thumb that works. People who think "I can get rich quick by selling something worth not-much for a fortune" all read the same books. Same spiel, same slow build up of scenario with doubt thrown in building to a cresendo of urgency, "BUY NOW! ONLY ONE LEFT! NEVER AT THIS PRICE AGAIN!", blah blah blah. And, of course, all will have same yellow highlighted text. Find two competitors, hell, even two completely different products with the same basic "learn how to x, instantly", and compare the pages. See? ;)

ChordsAndScales.co.uk - Guitar Chord/Scale Finder/Viewer


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(@noteboat)
Famed Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 4933
 

It's like saying surgeons need to know anatomy... so here's a quick way to remember the names of the cranial nerves. Now take your scalpel and go operate!
On Old Olympus' Towering Tops, A Finn And German Viewed Some Hops.
(Olfactory, Optic, Oculomotor, Trochlear, Trigeminal, Abducens, Facial, Auditory (vestibulocochlear), Glossopharyngeal, Vagus, Accessory (spinal accessory), Hypoglossal.

There you go. You're ready to start cutting, and it didn't take anywhere near 60 minutes! :D

That's the one I was thinking of - a physician friend was telling me some of the mnemonics they used in medical school. Hers had the Finn and German vending hops, but same result.

Now lemme find that bottle of iodine and I'll open for business :)

Guitar teacher offering lessons in Plainfield IL


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(@misanthrope)
Noble Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 2268
 

Any Green Wing fans around? There's a scene where one of them is explaining his nmemonic for the bones of the skull: "Foreign Politicians Often Zing Stereotypical Tunes Mayday Mayday Venezuela Neck!", and delivered in the most perfect deadpan you'll ever see. I can't take nmemonics seriously any more ;)

ChordsAndScales.co.uk - Guitar Chord/Scale Finder/Viewer


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(@ricochet)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 7850
 

I can't print here our mnemonic for some of the structures under the angle of the jaw, but I still remember it 32 years later.

"A cheerful heart is good medicine."


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(@kingpatzer)
Noble Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 2198
 

I think everyone's confused. If there are really people out there buying that, then I'm gonna have to make me a website.

I have thought for some time that the only reason I'm not a millionaire is that I'm too moral to seperate fools from their money.

"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." -- HST


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(@lee-n)
Estimable Member
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 142
 

He is a salesman / copywriter not a guitar teacher. He uses common sales tricks and has made a lot of sales on that product. I know exactly the type of business he is in and I know exactly what the product is, I have seen it. Do not buy it

Lee


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(@noteboat)
Famed Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 4933
 

I thought it was pretty obvious he wasn't a guitar teacher - about halfway down the page is a section beginning "I'm sure you'd agree these are some of the very best players in the world..." and then goes on to name a dozen, with the first four in bold.

One of those four is Kurt Cobain.

Good songwriter, sure. But one of the best players in the world?

Guitar teacher offering lessons in Plainfield IL


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(@noteboat)
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Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 4933
 

Hey, here's something curious... I looked up fret2fret.com in the Internet Wayback Mahine.

http://fret2fret.com /">Back when he started he had an "elevan" year old son who learned the fretboard in an hour and a half using his product. That must not have come out as well as he'd hoped, because http://www.fret2fret.com /">a year later it was "so simple an 8 year old child could do it. Sales must have dropped, because http://www.fret2fret.com /">a month later the son is back... only this time he's 7 years old, and learned the fretboard in 45 minutes.

Guitar teacher offering lessons in Plainfield IL


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(@noteboat)
Famed Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 4933
 

The more I look into this joker, the funnier he gets. When he's not busy being an "Advanced Guitarist, Instructor, and Celebrated Inventor", he's figuring out how to solve kitty litter problems.

He'll share his secrets (for a fee) at Claws2Paws

Guitar teacher offering lessons in Plainfield IL


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(@kingpatzer)
Noble Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 2198
 

googling fret2fret yields some interesting results to be sure. The guy clearly is without clue about simple technology as well as musical pedagogy.

"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." -- HST


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