Worship bands are always a sensitive situation. Since plenty of musical ideas have already been offered, I hope I can offer some interpersonal/management advice:
You have volunteer players. You can't ask or expect the same things from them that you can ask from a professional player (though I have heard some really first-rate players in church bands who would leave me in the dust...) I have had people who were absolute beginners at their instruments, as well. I've personally had to train two bass players and a drummer over the past few years - and no they didn't get fed up and leave :lol: they were folks who moved out of town - two for military, one for work.
What I always go back to when I suggest changes is the purpose of what you do in a church band - leading worship. When music is imperfect or mushy, or just sorta "off" - the congregation picks up on that, even those without trained ears sometimes, and it distracts their focus. So I would come from a standpoint of "Hey guys, when we sound bad, we aren't effectively leading worship, we're actually getting in the way."
And of course, in a church band, you have to remember to treat your musicians with respect and care.....I mean, it's a church band after all, not the music business!
So yes, someone needs to take charge and assign things, but do so with tact, compliments, and respect. Tough job. But eventually you will get into a groove, everyone will know their role, and you'll be a well-oiled machine in no time.
I am where my mind put me.
I get to put in a plug for one of my favorite bands! :D Here is a good video example of the California Guitar Trio playing Bohemian Rhapsody. They are playing different parts like people have been describing in this thread. The video clearly shows the left hands of all three of them so you can see where each is on the fretboard.
We ran into this same problem and there's a lot of good suggestions already posted. We didn't have a problem with mushy sound but decided three was just to much guitar. So I ordered up a banjo for Christmas. It's added a lot to our sound, I'll be playing it for the first time in church tomorrow. We're doing "By the Mark" a Gillian Welch/David Rollings number. You might think about someone taking up another instrument. If you can't work out the three guitar problem. I like the suggestion of one person finger picking, one capoing and one strumming open.
Tim Madsen
Nobody cares how much you know,
until they know how much you care.
"What you keep to yourself you lose, what you give away you keep forever." -Axel Munthe
Hi,
As others have said, there's more than one possible answer to the problem.
You can have three guitars play the same thing - after all, you have plenty of multiple instruments playing the same line in an orchestra - but it only works well if the playing is really tight. And that means lots of rehearsal together. As Vic said, you need to be all accurately in tune with each other, but you also need to be very accurate with your timing too, and that doesn't just happen without a lot of practice.
We have the same problem in the choir I'm in. You can split the parts up to some degree - but you can't have 50 separate lines. When we first started singing there were 50 slightly different timings and tempi, even when we were supposedly in unison. It sounded like it was being filtered through a pile of old blankets.... :?
So we've done a lot of rehearsal with the aim of singing really tightly, crisply and accurately. If you think it's hard to sync three guitars, then imagine 50 (amateur) voices....
In this case, getting somebody to work out an arrangement that splits the job up does sound like a good option. However, getting somebody to actually do that, and then working on playing it that way, will also take time.
In most cases it's going to be a compromise between how keen everybody is on putting enough rehearsal time to play something that's either in tighter unison or differently arranged, and just being more accepting about less than top line results. Usually it's a bit of both.
Good luck with trying to get them to lift their game a bit. :)
Cheers,
Chris
Hey folks, thanks for the additional good thoughts! It's all very helpful.
Funny, we had only one guitarist at church this weekend, and no keys. So it was fairly lean, just bass, guitar and drums. Often we'll get some applause at the end of the service, but this was the first time I've ever heard applause after the opening song! 8) Maybe going with only one guitar at a time is the right thing (and certainly the easiest), but I do want to push them to "lift their game" as Chris put it.
Listen to Steely Dan's album AJA. 3 guitarists on many of those tracks. Larry Carlton says this is some of his favorite work that he has ever done. The concept behind 3 guitarists has to be orchestration and texture. Think this way and you can't go wrong.
Maybe my memory's shot, but wasn't a lot of leonard skynyrd done with three guitars?
When I think of bands I listen to that have more than two guitars, it seems that arranging parts is the key. Three playing the same thing, for very long, gets a little hard and headachy.
When I think of bands I listen two with three guitars, though, I realize that all of them involve having somebody play stuff that I personally can't. So it's not just arrangement, it's ability. :D
And being a church band maybe changes the priorities from those of a pro band- more important to include everybody than to sound perfect, imo. Sounds like you're doing fine and have some great ideas. GO slow with it, though.
Best,
Ande
Ande,
Your right alot of Sknyard is with three guitars
"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!
So it's not just arrangement, it's ability. :D
Nail on the head, that.
Or, at least, a desire to learn and to improve. I'm not sure all of our guys have it ... :cry:
Ande,
Your right alot of Sknyard is with three guitars
Check the Doobie Brothers during the Skunk Baxter era - they were very good at coming up with different voicings and patterns, etc, plus tossing in a banjo or mandolin as needed.
I record MOST stuff in three whacks. But this is easy to hear since it is well defined and "electric". Trying to sort out three acoustic guitars...not miked...all "ka-chunka/ka-chunka" is probably the toughest to split up so it's not all jumbled up.
I'd suggest one guitar only strumming simple and sustained chords...just one swipe per chord....LOUD! Let is sustain. Split the other two up...high three strings and low three (or reposition the chords hi & low)...to feed off the decay of the first guitar. It'll be tough without someone on faders at the board...but...what can I say???
This is as simple as I can get from this head-scratch, I'm afraid...but I do think it'll suit even the most rudimentary of players.
Hope this helps...
Cat
"Feel what you play...play what you feel!"
ask iron maiden...
Made a little progress tonight; introduced Iron Maiden's "Run to the Hills" as the opening worship song this week ... not! :lol:
Anyway, things are coming to a head, as two of the guitarists sat down with me and the worship leader after practice, and we talked about some of the things they should be thinking about when they're all playing together. Mostly along the "orchestration" front, playing different parts, up the neck, etc. So, that's good.
The problem that has developed is some personal tension between them and the third guitarist (who was at practice but couldn't stay for the discussion ... or maybe they didn't ask him? I don't know ... ) over their playing styles; #3 is younger and tends to play more aggressively, while the others tend toward more basic strumming. So I'm playing "camp counselor" now as well. :(
Well, a half step in the right direction, I think.
I've played in worship bands for quite a while, and working with an all volunteer force can definitely be difficult. I would suggest having a sit-down with the entire band, remind them all of what their purpose is, and encourage them to work to improve both their musicianship and their relationships with one another. If they're not up to it- it's ok to kindly ask them to leave.
It's a hard thing to do, but I've seen this philosophy lead to great success and unity within groups. I've seen people leave and never come back, and I've seen people leave, grow up, and return refreshed and ready to work.
The mission behind what you're doing is far greater than any individuals wants, desires, or feelings, and having a wedge of pride or complacency between personalities is a detriment to the entire group.
Like I said, it's a hard thing to do- but I don't believe there's any room for bitterness, pride or sloth in what you do every week.
I think it's time for some divine intervention eh!
"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!
