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American vs. Import - Worth the money? - Discussion

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(@the-dali)
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Joined: 18 years ago
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I was recently looking at some Gibson Les Paul Classics for purchase (looking used for about $1300) and I was at Guitar Center and EVERY Gibson under $2000 that I looked at had some kind of cosmetic flaw. :twisted: Specifically, the binding on the inside of the cut-away didn't cover the entire maple cap - leaving a small sliver of maple showing. Or, the guitar had a slight "ridge" where the binding met the mahogany. Conversely, EVERY Epiphone I picked up had perfect binding. What's the deal?

We can move on to Fenders... $800 for what?? A body cut out of a plank of wood, some routing, given a paint job and then a neck slapped on it with some hardware?? Seems extremely expensive for what you get (no inlays, no binding, top-routing, no chrome covers) - and that's the entry level!! What's the difference between the Standard $800 strat and the $1800 Eric Johnson? Some minor cosmetics and pickups. I don't get it.

Ok, to my question... what do you all think of with regard to imports versus USA models? With the quality of many of these imports it would seem to make sense to pick one up for $340, upgrade some electronics/hardware, and play a great $550 guitar instead of buying a $1400 Les Paul, or PRS, or Strat, or Hamer boutique. What do you think? The main reason - in my mind - for the American guitars is the re-sale/investment value.

Open for discussion, angry retorts or simple agreement! :lol:

-=- Steve

"If the moon were made of ribs, would you eat it?"


   
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(@rocker)
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Joined: 18 years ago
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dali, i totaly agree, i bought an epi lp black beauty new for 700 bucks, changed the bridge pup to adimarzio f spaced super distortion, an the middle and neck pups dimarzio paf pros
and this axe totaly rocks, i would love to have a gibson lp, but not gonna pay 2000
bucks+ for it.

even god loves rock-n-roll


   
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(@Anonymous)
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dali, i totaly agree, i bought an epi lp black beauty new for 700 bucks, changed the bridge pup to adimarzio f spaced super distortion, an the middle and neck pups dimarzio paf pros
and this axe totaly f#*kin rocks, i would love to have a gibson lp, but not gonna pay 2000
bucks+ for it.

OK...Why pay $700 for an Epiphone when you can pay $160-$400 for an Agile for the most part made in the same factory? My $160 Agile is better than ALL of the Epi's I have played (I have not tried the Elitist but I also haven't tried the Higher end Agiles either.

Two reasons for US made purchases...NAME (sometimes these people are called "name snobs" and like mentioned...resale value. Harley vs. Honda is another good example (Harleys are MUCH better now but in the late 70's early 80's were junk).

I will be honest though...I am dying for an American Tele...mainly for what it stands for to me...it represents true America to me. Country & Blues music, the heart of America. I know it sounds corny but that's why I want one...As for Gibson's and a USA strat...if I get an AMAZING deal then maybe I'll get one...


   
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(@twistedlefty)
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Well put Mikespe,
i completely agree, some of you may remember my ordeal with MF/Fender trying to find an acceptable 50th anniversary american delux strat. do a search if you don't.

that said, i did not let it stop me in the search for what i consider one of the nicest, flat out most versatile guitars on the planet. sure it cost over $1200 (before my thrown in extras) but i had to have it because i've always wanted an American Strat.

i have to agree with Mikespe on the LP copy topic tho, i'm probably going Agile when the time comes for my next G.A.S. attack

#4491....


   
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(@wes-inman)
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Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 5582
 

Wow, great and interesting subject.

I gotta admit, I am a little of a name snob. I mean, if I had the choice of a Gibson LP or an Epiphone LP, I am going with the Gibson. And between Fender and Squier, I am going with the Fender.

I guess it is all psychological, but it does make a difference. You just feel better about a big name guitar. And if you are not completely happy with your guitar, you are gonna believe it's because it's an Epi and not a real Gibson LP. It may all be in your mind, BUT IT IS IN YOUR MIND. You can't escape it.

And part of it is pure show, and I will admit that too. When my band plays on stage, I want people to see good gear. I would rather have a Marshall stack than a Behringer combo. I am not putting Behringer down, they make great products, and I own a lot of B gear. But still, part of performing is putting on a show that impresses people. And standing on stage with a Gibson LP through a Marshall stack is more impressive than a Squier guitar through a Crate amp. Again, not putting any of these products down.

So, as dumb as I know it is, I still want name gear. You just feel better about it. And I think you play better because you feel good about your gear.

On the other hand........

It is not completely false. You get what you pay for. A Fender Deluxe Reverb amp is going to kick the you know what out of a Crate solid state amp. Anybody who thinks different doesn't know tone. This is a great amp with great tone. And if you want that tone you got to pay the ferryman.

And a real Gibson LP is going to sound better than an Epi. This is not in your head. They really do sound better.

So, part of paying big bucks is to get the real gear that gets the truly great tones you are after.

But, on the other hand....... :D

Generally, listeners cannot tell the difference between a cheap amp and a great amp. They are not musicians. They cannot hear the subtle difference, which is huge to a musician. And the longer you play, the more refined your ear becomes. Like Joe Forrock Star says, it's all a quest for tone. And if you want the truly great sounds, you are going to have to buy top of the line (or the best you can afford) gear.

As far as quality, I think you have to look at each instrument individually. I own a Squier Telecaster, and it is really a very nice guitar. It does not have the best tuners or pickups, or saddles, but the construction is superb. I am amazed at how well this guitar is built. And it sounds very good too, although not really like a real Tele. You can't get that real Tele twang. I believe it is the Agathis body.

I also own a Fender American Tele. It cost 4 times as much as the Squier. I am not too thrilled with Gibson quality, but Fenders are truly superb guitars. I looked this guitar over up and down before I purchased it. It was absolutely flawless. Just perfect. The Tele may be a simple guitar, but I tell ya, the American Teles are super nice.

I looked at Gibson guitars about a year ago. I was kinda shocked. I found a lot of quality issues. I was really turned off, that was when I looked at the Fender Tele and bought it. Fender is way ahead in quality.

But about 8 months ago a friend offered me a Gibson LP Studio at a great price. It is a 98. The quality of this is very good, so I had to get it. And I am very happy with it. So, I think you just have to carefully look at a guitar before you make a purchase.

Anyway, that's my long 2 cents. But a great subject. Sorry if I am a name snob, but I would rather own a Porsche than a Yugo. 8)

If you know something better than Rock and Roll, I'd like to hear it - Jerry Lee Lewis


   
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(@pearlthekat)
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Joined: 19 years ago
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PRS makes two guitars, basically they're the same guitar though, the Santana Se and the Tremonti, that retail for around $800. You can get them for less though, at probably anyplace, may $600-$650. I got mine new on ebay for $400. They're made in hong kong paul reed smith guitars, but they're real nice, great sounding, easy to play guitars. I'd check into that if I were you. they fly off the selves.


   
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 cnev
(@cnev)
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I'd have to go with Wes on this one even though I'm still a wanna be player I still want to have good gear and now that I'm a little older and I can afford hey what the heck I'm worth it.

Now Wes in your second sentence you said you'd pick Squire over Fender..didn't you mean the other way around?

I think everyone buys instruments or anything else for that matter for many different reasons...I guess if you are focused only on the price you might always question why you should pay so much for a name guitar.

When I was younger and played alot of sports I always wanted to use the same equipment as the "pros" used so I'd buy that $130 rawlings glove or whatever. Sure I could have bought a Spalding for $30 but no one that was playing in the major leagues was doing that.

It's kinda the same with guitars...how many guitar greats do you see playing with knock off no name guitars...probably none..now granted they don't even pay for their guitars in most cases but if they weren't good instruments they wouldn't be playing them.

"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!


   
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(@wes-inman)
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Chris

Yes, I meant Fender, I went back and fixed it. And you are even right about baseball gloves. I really think it applies to everything.

And you are also correct, the guitars and amps that have a great reputation earned it. 8)

If you know something better than Rock and Roll, I'd like to hear it - Jerry Lee Lewis


   
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(@Anonymous)
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And you are also correct, the guitars and amps that have a great reputation earned it. 8)

And many like Gibson are LOSING that reputation. QC has dropped dramically over the years on Gibson guitars. I have heard many say the same on Fender's as well but mostly the MIM lines. Most people do agre with Wes that Fenders are worth it.

BUT.....

How much worth it!? With Fenders is it worth it to by a $3000 Strat over the $1000 model? With Gibson $3000 LP or a $800 Epi Elitist? Is the QUALITY that much better? I would have to say NO. Even new cars don't raise up the same percentage as guitars do with more options (I said percentage not price because of the obvious price difference in guitars and cars). A basic Cadillac starts around $35000...fully loaded around $45000 (about 29% increase in price) and a basic Gibson LP starts around $1000 and upper end goes for $4000 (300% increase!). Are they THAY much better?


   
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(@twistedlefty)
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Are they THAT much better? (sp correction)

my opinion No.

that's why i will most likely buy an Agile for $200-$250, drop $150-$200 in Hardware improvments, and have less than $500 invested when the time comes.
i say "most likely" because Epiphone QC on the higher end models in my experiance has come a long way in the last year or so and several of those models are verrrry nice.
if i can get what i want as an end product for under $700-$800 then i may be tempted to go with the Epi.

#4491....


   
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(@rocker)
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twisted---
the epi's have gotten alot better, the pups are decent, but i like dimarzio's,
after spending 180 on 3 of them, my black beauty sounds as good as any gibson i have played.

even god loves rock-n-roll


   
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(@tim_madsen)
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Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 724
 

I'll agree that you get what you pay for to a point. But I believe there's a point when all your paying for is name. I payed about $1100 for my Tacoma dreadnaught. In order to get the quality of it in a Martin, Gibson or Taylor I'd have to pay twice that much or more. And none of those can match the sustain of my Tacoma, hit a note and it rings forever. So in my opinion you get what you pay for to a point.

Tim Madsen
Nobody cares how much you know,
until they know how much you care.

"What you keep to yourself you lose, what you give away you keep forever." -Axel Munthe


   
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(@steves)
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Posts: 212
 

I have a buddy who is not only a name snob, but a vintage snob. He only looks at Fender and Gibson and won't look at anything made in the last 20 years unless its a custom shop. I've gone to a couple of guitar shows with him and I think he get's a little over the top with this, but that's his gig.

Like Wes, I'm somewhat of a name snob too, but I also agree with Mike. I've got my Highway 1 Strat and my Gibson LP Standard. I like having the name brands and would not have bought an EPI, Squier or MIM. That said, at this point in my life I wouldn't lay out the kind of cash required for top of the line, custom shop guitars. You get what you pay for, but at a certain point there are diminishing returns - at least for me.

One thing to keep in mind is that the quality does vary from instrument to instrument. That's why I think it is so hard to buy online or catalog - you need to see, feel and play the instrument first.

Interestingly, I don't feel the same way about my acoustic. I have a Martin DM. This was the first guitar I bought and yes, the name swayed me greatly. Don't get me wrong - good guitar for a good price, but after spending a couple of years in the GN community I realize there are many, many more options than Martin and Taylor, especially in the lower price range, that offer higher quality and value. I guess I just want my electrics to be somewhat like the guitars I watched my guitar heroes play. 8)

Steve


   
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(@u2bono269)
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Joined: 21 years ago
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ive played Fenders and Squiers, Gibsons (acoustics only) and Epiphones, and I would have to say beyond any shadow of a doubt in my mind that the Gibsons and the Fenders are definitely of a better overall quality. I do not like most Squiers, especially the ones that are Fender copies. they just arent up to par with the Fender Standard Series, and the Fender Standards can't touch the American Series. Simple as that.

One thing we are all neglecting in terms of price...where it was made. Gibsons and Fender Am Series are made in the good old USA, where labor is much higher than say, Mexico, Korea, Indonesia, whatever. That's how these less-expensive guitars cost less, they are made overseas with significantly cheaper labor. add together cheaper labor + lesser quality materials + less QC and construction and suddenly you have an instrument that is good in its own right but not as good as the flagship models it emulates. it's almost like comparing apples to oranges, imo

http://www.brianbetteridge.com


   
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(@ignar-hillstrom)
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Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 5349
 

I'm partly with Wes on this one. I myself don't care about brands *at all*. I do not own a Fender or Gibson guitar. Yet, and here it comes folks, I can see easily why people want to get a MIA strat instead of a squire: it's better. It's as simple as that. And the better I get as a player the more obvious the difference. Note that I am not just talking about 'sound', I'm talking about playability, finish, quality of materials etc. For what it's worth: I really wanted to believe my western was as good as a handmade martin and my electric was no less then a customshop gibson but I now see that is pure and utter nonsense. And while I saw no difference between my $140 Dean and a $1400 Usa Deluxe Fender when I was struggling with the A-chord I can now no longer deny it.

So it is different. But is it worth the extra cash? If you're serious and can afford it, sure it is. Common, $1000 for a USA fender that will last you a life-time, can you name me a cheaper way to spend your free time? Now there are reasons why not to get the good stuff. I myself play a lot of different music (rather poorly but still) so one custom shop Gibson LP won't really do. I wanted a classical, western, jazzbox etc, and I can't afford a dozen custom shop guitars. So I go with the cheaper guitars. Or maybe you aren't very serious and have no need for anything but a $100 accoustic. Or maybe you simply can't afford it or rather spend that money on your kids' education or whatever. All fine choices. But that doesn't mean that the more expansive guitars aren't worth the money. Nor does it mean that people who buy Fenders do so for the resale value, nostalgia or because they are stupid. Some just do it because they like the guitar better and want to spend the cash to get the guitar they really want.


   
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