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(@jimmybinder)
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Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 32
Topic starter  

hey guys,

i was wondering if i could get your thoughts / opinions on a certain thing thats been bugging me for a while. I play in a band that has been playing shows for about a year now...i am the main songwriter. we are a 3 piece (guitar, bass, drums.) i feel really guilty even saying this, but sometimes i get frustrated at my drummer's lack of experience. She is a good drummer, very likeable by everyone, and not to mention gives the group a very unique image (since she is female!) she has improved alot since we started, but her level of skill and experience is still a little under mine and the bass player's. At rehearsal i sometimes get frustrated when she slows down the song, or can't keep a solid tempo. I never get angry at her (partly because she is also my girlfriend!!) but i do make it clear to her sometimes, but she doens't really hear where she is off on the beat. she gets many compliments at our shows also, which also kind of confuses me. Since are songs are getting stronger and we are improving as a whole, we are ready to take it to the next level, but i don't know that i'm completely confident in her ability. i guess what i'm asking is if anyone has experience with a similar situation where they're not sure if they should get rid of the 'weaker' player to benefit the group, or if we should just stick it out and have more patience. i am really NOT a snob, or an ego maniac and many ppl say i'm very easy to work with, but this has been frustrating me for a while and i guess i feel kind of cheated that our songs aren't as tight and powerful as they could be.

Of course I have my own tthings to work on and I am by no means perfect.

anyway, enough bitching from me.

cheers,

R.


   
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(@clazon)
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Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 502
 

When you have a weaker band member, I'd tend to say stick it out.

It's happened to me before, but eventually they'll come good and achieve a standard where they are competent enought to "make music".

I have to say though that it is quite bad if a drummer loses time, rather than say a bassist or whatever. But in the end, if you take it slowly and work it thorugh with them on every song and they go away and practise it at home too, I haven't met anyone who can't pick something up.

Don't get angry at them cos that'll just put added pressure on both of you to play perfectly, but make it clear when there are errors and offer the solution. Don't just stop after every small fault otherwise there will be no continuity and so no chance to get a feel for it.

"Today is what it means to be young..."

(Radiohead, RHCP, Jimi Hendrix - the big 3)


   
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 geoo
(@geoo)
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Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 2801
 

A good friendly responsible, likeable, person is much more imporant than talent as long as the person is able to do their part of the job. My drummer is similar to yours. His tempo varies, he isnt as good as he could be but man he is a likeable guy and really cares about the band (To the point of getting frustrated at himself) but I would take him anyday over an ego maniac. I say stick it out. Man, just have fun and dont worry about it as long as it sounds decent.

Jim

“The hardest thing in life is to know which bridge to cross and which to burn” - David Russell (Scottish classical Guitarist. b.1942)


   
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(@boxboy)
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Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 1221
 

Is everybody in the band onside with the idea that 'we are ready to take it to the next level'? No chance the drummer's goals are a little less ambitious? If not and everyone is agreed, then maybe a 'mission statement', even if it's pretty informal. 'Man, in 6 months I'd really like to see us at whatever place.' Then the onus is on everyone to work and improve in that pursuit. And some people will have to work a little harder because they have farther to come.
One thing I know from experience doesn't work is not addressing ongoing problems musically. I was in a band in late high school and we went nowhere, mainly because we spent too much time tiptoeing around each other's feelings.
I think Clason's:

Don't get angry at them cos that'll just put added pressure on both of you to play perfectly, but make it clear when there are errors and offer the solution. Don't just stop after every small fault otherwise there will be no continuity and so no chance to get a feel for it

is the perfect approach.

Don


   
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(@crank-n-jam)
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Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 1206
 

From what I understand drummers aren't easy to come by, so I say stick it out.

Plus, since she is your girlfriend, you might just lose her altogether. Better to tackle this together and you'll both be better for it (IMO).

Jason

"Rock And Roll Ain't Noise Pollution"


   
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(@jimmybinder)
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Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 32
Topic starter  

yeah, what you guys are saying makes alot of sense. i suppose i should be looking at the bigger picture...


   
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(@jasonrunguitar)
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Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 273
 

I'd say stick it out as well. Especially if she's improved a lot. That's a good indicator that she's just going to keep on getting better, and it's hard to find a really good drummer. So, I mean, what are the odds that you'll find another one that is

a) better
b) willing to work as hard
c) enjoyable to work with
d) really adds to the band

If her only downfall is that she's a little behind you and the bassist in talent, she seems to be working on that. I know it has to be hard when you're really wanting to keep taking your music to the stage, I mean, who doesn't? But as much as it's about getting better and improving, in my opinion, a band is just as much about making music and having fun around people you enjoy doing it with! Best of luck!

-Jason
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To those about to rock, we salute you!
http://www.soundclick.com/jasonwittenbach


   
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(@gnease)
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Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 5038
 

Being a bit behind in musical skills is not a big deal. If everyone is still learning and developing, that gap likely will close. Not being able to keep steady time is a big deal for a drummer -- it's the first line on the job description. So, the big question would be this: Is she getting better at keeping time? If yes, then great, stick with your drummer as she develops this further. If there is no noticable improvement -- and you've given her a fair amount of time to demonstrate this, then it's time to move on, as your frustration will only increase.

As for being your girlfriend: That's a tough complication. It's truly amazing if you can manage the musical and personal relationship. Good luck with all of this.

-=tension & release=-


   
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(@chris-c)
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Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 3454
 

As Gnease says, you're in a tough situation there.

You do need to find ways of talking it all through, that's for sure. Any band or team can benefit from direction and leadership, but at the same time you don't want to end up with the reputation as the bossy, picky one who keeps telling the other band members what to do.

What sometimes works for me is to realise that it could just a easily be me that's the least good. How would you feel if you got an outstanding drummer and they then started telling you that you were the one holding things back? I could wear it, but a lot would hinge on how it was done!

The best way is probably to try and develop a way of working together on issues that's supportive of each other rather than critical, and lets you all make (and accept) comments about various good and bad points.

There are plenty of examples of big name bands who had a member or two whose skills were only pretty average, but who were still an important part of the overall package. They contributed something other than just top musicianship.

Good luck,

Cheers,

Chris


   
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(@wes-inman)
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Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 5582
 

Usually when a drummer can't keep time it's because they are trying to play above their ability (at that time). You could try and ask her to concentrate on keeping the beat or groove. This is the most important thing any drummer can do. What good are fancy runs and rolls if they throw you (and the band) off time?? So you need to be straightforward (but kind) and tell her she has a timing problem. If she is serious about the band she will work on it. Maybe she just needs to play simpler parts.

But that is not always the case. Perhaps she is not taking the music seriously. Perhaps she is not practicing enough. Her interest in the band and music might not be what your's is. Some musicians just like to jam. They do not care so much about the quality of their music, they just enjoy playing. This is a real problem when the other members are very serious and want to advance.

If you and the bass player are very serious about your music and she is not, then you are going to have to find another drummer. It is not a fun thing to do, but you have to do it. I was in a band like this. The bass player and I were very serious about our music but our drummer was not. He would lose time, speed up, slow down, forget parts completely. The thing is, we practiced a lot, about 3-4 times per week. But he continued to have these problems. He knew he had timing problems, but never seemed to improve. It was like he lacked concentration (and there may have been a substance abuse reason for this). Finally, unknown to him, we held several practices with another drummer. The new drummer was much better, he played simple parts but had excellent timing and dynamics and always got right in the groove with our bass player. We just sounded WAY better with the new drummer.

So, we just made up our minds to tell him. It felt terrible, it really did. It felt like betraying a friend really. At the end of a gig we told him we had a new drummer. He was very upset. But he knew why. And really, he was not happy with the band either, this timing problem caused him lots of frustration too. I really don't think his heart was into it. He didn't talk to us for about a month, but after that he was friendly again, and even got us a few gigs later on. I don't see him much anymore, but he is still a good friend.

So, you might try having her play simpler parts. Have a drum machine clicking time, or try an in-ear metronome. But you can only do this so long. It is a lousy thing for a band to sound terrible at gigs because one single member is messing everybody else up. One bad apple spoils the whole bunch. You will be considered a lousy musician too. You will not be happy.

I was in another band that was great except our singer. He never improved. I stuck it out for a long time but eventually it just gets to you and you can't take it anymore. That is if you are the type that wants to play great music. That band, I quit. I am not a quitter at all, but I couldn't keep playing in a band that sounded so bad because of a bad singer. The rest of the band was very good.

So, my advice is a little different than the others. It is good to be patient. And it is a wonderful thing to have a band member with a great personality. But if they really are a truly poor player and do not seem to improve after a fair amount of time, you have to get rid of them.

It is not about ego, it is about playing good music.

If you know something better than Rock and Roll, I'd like to hear it - Jerry Lee Lewis


   
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(@gnease)
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Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 5038
 

So, my advice is a little different than the others. It is good to be patient. And it is a wonderful thing to have a band member with a great personality. But if they really are a truly poor player and do not seem to improve after a fair amount of time, you have to get rid of them.

I'd say we pretty much agree on this one, Wes.

-=tension & release=-


   
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(@itchard)
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Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 59
 

Hmm...

Why is it drummers are always the problems in bands? Stringed guys are waaaaaaay better :D

Well, the drummer in my band is really good. I mean he has a great kit, great skills, timing...great ideas...but the trouble is, he really wants to be just like RHCP. I've got no problem with the chilis, but I don't want to BE them.

The bassist, singer and I are all set on being individual, and I guess our drummer will just follow on.

I remember sitting in his living room watching RHCP live at Slane Castle. Our drummer was like "Yeah, we'll sound like that!" (we had a gig the next day).

So theres John Frusciante with 3 Marshall stacks, a 70's Tele and God-knows how many pedals, and me with my £100 Strat copy, 30W orange and a BOSS ME-50.

Doubt we'll sound the same...

As for skill within the band, I'm probably the most overshadowed (or the most modest?). I've been playing for two years, the drummer for about 5, the bassist for about 1 (but he's really good at improv) and the singer is great.

We do tend to all get on though...jamming is always a laugh.

Just try and stick it out. Improvements come out of living and learning. I'm sure with the right amount of practice you'll be alright. Theres nothing like learning how your bandmates minds work with an instrument in front of them.


   
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(@decieved)
Trusted Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 56
 

i would try to find a new drummer. i know she's probably your friend, but youre doing this for the band.


   
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(@mooseh)
Trusted Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 40
 

I would be tempted to ask yourself why you started the band in the first place. Was it because you wanted to get rich quick or was it because you enjoyed making music together. Hell back in the day I was a drummer in a band I was definetly the weakest link (There was one guy in the band that could have played drums better than me, guitar better than the rhythm guitartist and kicked the crap out of the vocalists vocals) and there were some very frustrating times for me as I had a habit of speeding up over time. I can only imagine how frustrating it was for everyone else, but we stuck it out and had a huge amount of fun.
Sure we didn't really get anywhere but I enjoyed my time with the band and I hope they all did too, and I'm now 1000 times better than I ever was because I've carried on putting in the time and effort. The experience I gained from being in that band made me concentrate harder on trying to keep better time and improving my playing on a whole.
I think I started off this post trying to make a point but I'm unclear what that was now but hopefully me sharing my experience with you has helped you in some way. :)

http://www.myspace.com/happinessgunpoint


   
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(@riff-raff)
Reputable Member
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 371
 

I hope she doesn't read this forum.


   
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