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Bend and Vibrato

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(@gotdablues)
Estimable Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 129
Topic starter  

Well, I've noticed something interesting when I try to bend/vib a note G string 7th fret.
First let me relay what I've been taught about bending technique; basically you want to
bend the 3 bottom strings (G,B,E) Up towards the cealing. The 3 top ones you can pull
down towards the floor, Generally. The law of physics will tell you that is indeed easier to
pull something than is is to push something. So I've noticed that when I bend the G string
toward the floor I can get a wicked Vibrato tone, something that just don't happen on the
up-bend.

Maybe I need to work on my up-bend a little more? Has anyone else noticed anything like this?

Pat


   
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(@axissupersport)
Eminent Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 29
 

Yeah it sounds like you need to work more on your up bends. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean you can't continue to do down bends on the G string. I've seen many players do down bends on the G and B because that's how they feel comfortable doing it. Basically, do what feels and sounds better to you. You may switch to an up bend on the G after you master it but then again you may like doing a down bend instead. Whatever turns you on!


   
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(@gotdablues)
Estimable Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 129
Topic starter  

Yeah it sounds like you need to work more on your up bends. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean you can't continue to do down bends on the G string. I've seen many players do down bends on the G and B because that's how they feel comfortable doing it. Basically, do what feels and sounds better to you. You may switch to an up bend on the G after you master it but then again you may like doing a down bend instead. Whatever turns you on!

Thing is I can bend G down OK, but if I try the B string down especially a whole step, I'm gonna pull it off the fretboard,
Hence, work the up-bending technique, like you say.....

Pat


   
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 Ande
(@ande)
Prominent Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 652
 

I'm just getting started, but it seems that when I play, it depends on how far you're gonna bend it. I often bend the B string down too, when I'm just putting a little "color" on it, but if you want to really whale on that bend, it has to go up, or it won't fit.

Best,
Ande


   
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(@gotdablues)
Estimable Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 129
Topic starter  

I've always been facinated by the Late Jeff Healey, and the way he got those vibratos from hell!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d95YFdubGrU&feature=related

Seriously, in this aspect of guitar technique, he had advantage over just about everyone by pulling not pushing
the 3 high strings, IMO :lol:

Pat


   
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(@axissupersport)
Eminent Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 29
 

I'm just getting started, but it seems that when I play, it depends on how far you're gonna bend it. I often bend the B string down too, when I'm just putting a little "color" on it, but if you want to really whale on that bend, it has to go up, or it won't fit.

Best,
Ande

Exactly.


   
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 Cat
(@cat)
Noble Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 1224
 

So I've noticed that when I bend the G string
toward the floor I can get a wicked Vibrato tone, something that just don't happen on the
up-bend.Pat

Hey! You already ARE doing it! How CAN'T you bend each way when, looking critically at "vibrato"...you MUST bend back and forth??? Am I missin' somethin', here??? :?

Cat

"Feel what you play...play what you feel!"


   
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 cnev
(@cnev)
Famed Member
Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 4459
 

I missed that one but Cat is right in order to get that vibrato you need to be bending up and down so how are you getting vibrato if your just bending a string down?

"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!


   
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(@gnease)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 5038
 

gotta remember that on guitar, standard vibrato only ever raises the pitch, never lowers (except with whammy bar)

it's entirely possible to do vibrato by pulling "down" only or pushing "up" only. both actions raise the pitch of the note from the "unbent" center position, right? so whether one chooses to cruise through the return to pitch at the center (unbent) position then keep going to raise the pitch again (push-center=pull), or instead reverses at the center direction (push-center-push or pull-center-pull), the pitch changes will be the same. however the rate of the pitch change will probably be distinctively different for the two techniques. up-center-down speeds though the unbent center pitch to spend more time at the extreme positive shifts, while a pull-center-pull or push-center-push will spend more time the unbent pitch where the change of direction occurs.

-=tension & release=-


   
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(@anonymous)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 8184
 

just read this the other day, but a back and forth vibrato pushes the note flat and pulls it sharp. when you push the string fretward, you're actually shortening and lowering the tension of the vibrating part of the string. i'd never thought about it, but it makes sense. you don't see a lot of back and forth vibrato outside of classical instruments, though.
an up and down vibrato, which is more common on guitars, will only pull it sharp, although you can also bend up to a note and go sharp and flat on the note you're bent to.


   
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(@gotdablues)
Estimable Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 129
Topic starter  

I missed that one but Cat is right in order to get that vibrato you need to be bending up and down so how are you getting vibrato if your just bending a string down?

Apologies....

I mean to bend to a Half or Whole step up and put the~~~~ to it when you get there!

I guess vibrato could be classified in 2 ways, a Neutral Vibrato that you don't bend up first and a Bent Vibrato that you do.
I'm guessing that's not really the correct terminology though..


   
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(@gnease)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 5038
 

just read this the other day, but a back and forth vibrato pushes the note flat and pulls it sharp. when you push the string fretward, you're actually shortening and lowering the tension of the vibrating part of the string. i'd never thought about it, but it makes sense. you don't see a lot of back and forth vibrato outside of classical instruments, though.
an up and down vibrato, which is more common on guitars, will only pull it sharp, although you can also bend up to a note and go sharp and flat on the note you're bent to.

??

you don't see axial (back and forth) vibrato on much outside of fretless instruments, as frets almost completely eliminate that advantage of axial vibrato (symmetrical, up-down pitch bending) -- the string can't be effectively shortened or lengthened except by sliding down or up to another fret or by using a slide. so again the primary effect is only on the tension, and it only goes up, as does pitch.

-=tension & release=-


   
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(@gotdablues)
Estimable Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 129
Topic starter  

But the main point I'm really trying to make is to PULL the Gstring down towards the floor, my fingers seem to
have way more strength in this aspect like Superman compared to Spiderman :lol:

Really I'm just discovering this new cool sounding guitar riffy thing

Try it, if you never really worked it or even if ya did, tell me what ya think :)


   
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(@anonymous)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 8184
 

just read this the other day, but a back and forth vibrato pushes the note flat and pulls it sharp. when you push the string fretward, you're actually shortening and lowering the tension of the vibrating part of the string. i'd never thought about it, but it makes sense. you don't see a lot of back and forth vibrato outside of classical instruments, though.
an up and down vibrato, which is more common on guitars, will only pull it sharp, although you can also bend up to a note and go sharp and flat on the note you're bent to.

??

you don't see axial (back and forth) vibrato on much outside of fretless instruments, as frets almost completely eliminate that advantage of axial vibrato (symmetrical, up-down pitch bending) -- the string can't be effectively shortened or lengthened except by sliding down or up to another fret or by using a slide. so again the primary effect is only on the tension, and it only goes up, as does pitch.
you're right about it being seen mostly on violin and so forth, but it's also used in classical guitar playing. but think about it. you plant your finger down, and you push the string bridge-ward, and that is effectively going to cause the tension of the vibrating part of the string to drop, and stretch the part of the string behind your finger taut, and then as you go back to the neck, the opposite will happen.
and it's not just theory. i just did it on my steel string guitar, and get a warble of about a quarter step both ways when i slow it way down and listen. nylon strings are more plastic and you could possibly get even more pronounced changes on one. i don't have one handy tho, so that's just conjecture.


   
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(@gnease)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 5038
 

Axial vibrato used on classical because the frets are high, the strings are elastic and you can do a subtle vibrato in this manner by changing tension upward (press harder and nearer to fret) -- especially as it's easier on the string than sliding it across the fret. I can believe you get a pitch change. but by lowering the tension on a steel string to less than nominal fretted tension by pushing the string toward the bridge? -- not buying it, esp on a steel string. more likely: you've raised the pitch by over-pressing and are lowering closer to nominal when you do your axial movement -- which actually is a more of a rolling than sliding motion. Holdsworth made a claim about all of this (axial vibrato) allowing him to drop pitch in the "proper fashion." Don't buy that either. Suspect he was tuning for hard fretting, then the drop is achievable by fretting more lightly (lower string tension). He eventually stopped using the technique. I'm guessing because it wasn't that effective.

If you are getting a measurable drop, it's related to how you tune your guitar. Is it slightly flat if you fret lightly?

-=tension & release=-


   
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