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almann1979
(@almann1979)
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Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 1281
Topic starter  

So, tonight we started rehearsing "too hard to handle" by black crows in an attempt to expand our set list.
The rhythm seems pretty straight forward so i spent my week practicing the solo before tonight - and i thought i had it nailed.
anyway, i struggled with a part of it tonight and couldnt keep up with the drums so i changed the way i played by moving it to another part of the neck and it souded just fine.

however, although i can now play it as i'd like i have this little voice in my head saying "oh yes - but you havent got the dexterity and finger strength to play it the way it was tabbed" :oops:
now i know some tabs are rubbish - but when i come across things i struggle to play is it okay to alter the way i play it, as an immediate fix, or should i stick with it until i can play it the way it is tabbed to aid my long term development - what do other people here do?

"I like to play that guitar. I have to stare at it while I'm playing it because I'm not very good at playing it."
Noel Gallagher (who took the words right out of my mouth)


   
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lars
 lars
(@lars)
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Joined: 17 years ago
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Never trust a tab!! (in a blue trench-coat). If it sounds the same and it easier to play - I'd say you have probably stumbled upon how it was played originally.

edit - For me that is something that always makes me smile. When I have listened to song, try to play it and struggle for a while. And then suddenly: "AHA - it's actually easy to play it like this" - It has to be correct then :D

...only thing I know how to do is to keep on keepin' on...

LARS kolberg http://www.facebook.com/sangerersomfolk


   
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cnev
 cnev
(@cnev)
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I ask myself the same questions all the time. I agree with Lars that most of the tab from the internet is wrong, and most every "real" tab I find in music stores is overly complicated.

But to me and it's only my opinion if you have to make adjustements to play the song then you really can't play it. with that said there are alot of songs I can almost play but get hung up on parts of the solos, pretty much any really fast ones. Sure I could try and work out my own version of it it but obviously it wouldn't be the original.

For me that's the main reason I play covers and want to play them just like they were recorded because it's the only real way to measure my progress, if I changed every part that gave me a problem then yes I think in the long run it would slow you down. You might catch up later on but at first I think it would slow you down.

Just my opinion and I know I'm in the minority here.

I look at it this way..when I'm good enough to play it note for note the way the original was recorded then I'll be ready to put my own spin on it, until then I'll keep practicing!!

"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!


   
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Musenfreund
(@musenfreund)
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Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 5108
 

Playing the guitar is problem-solving. Play it your way until you find a way to play it that's closer to your "ideal" version of how to play it. But a little improvisation is in the spirit of things, I'd say.

Well we all shine on--like the moon and the stars and the sun.
-- John Lennon


   
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rparker
(@rparker)
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Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 5480
 

If you're up there busting your tail and/or trying to have a good time and playing to entertain me on a Saturday night just to earn a few beers and a little something towards your gear, you can bet your last buck that I will appreciate what was given to me. And that was BEFORE I started playing.

I don't fault others in their quest for "perfection". It's a challenge and defeating a challenge is quite rewarding.

Oh, and TABS are more of a guide than anything I think. I just spent 1/2 hour trying to figure out the missing chord in Proud Mary. The TAB got me most of the way there though.

Roy
"I wonder if a composer ever intentionally composed a piece that was physically impossible to play and stuck it away to be found years later after his death, knowing it would forever drive perfectionist musicians crazy." - George Carlin


   
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Vic Lewis VL
(@vic-lewis-vl)
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Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 10264
 

Ninety-nine times out of a hundred, I'd go for the easy way - the hundredth, well there possibly isn't another way to play the song!

Two songs I've recently struggled with are "Under The Bridge" and "Kashmir." UTB, I've reached an accomodation with - I'll play most of the song the way it's tabbed (well, the way Wes Inman did it in Easy Songs, anyway.) Apart from the intro - I absolutely cannot do the C-shaped barre chord at the second fret. Possibly down to all those hand injuries - so on that song, I'll settle for something that sounds vaguely recognisable for the intro. There's also an Emaj7 in there - if you watch the video, you'll see he goes from am A chord (577655) to an Emaj7 (779897) which I find difficult - so I play the Emaj7 as x22444, a Dmaj7 moved up two frets, which I find much easier. Kashmir, I'm still messing with - a couple of people have told me they found it fairly easy, but I'm struggling with the main riff....although I've not really given it that much in the way of practise, I'll have to see how I get on with it in a couple of weeks time. Trouble is, though, I don't see any way to make it easier.....

I've never found barre chords particularly difficult - except for Bb and F, and to a lesser extent B and F#. Just haven't got the hand strength to hold a full barre chord down - so I'll use my thumb for the bass strings. Easier, yes - cheating? Well - it works for me. It's the only way I can play those chords with any consistency - so that's the way I play 'em. Maybe I could hold them down for one song - but the aching hand I'd have the day after, it just wouldn't be worth it. They say, "no pain, no gain" - but I'm not going to deliberately set out to give myself a sore hand just to play barre chords "properly."

:D :D :D

Vic

"Sometimes the beauty of music can help us all find strength to deal with all the curves life can throw us." (D. Hodge.)


   
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David Hodge
(@davidhodge)
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...if you watch the video, you'll see he goes from am A chord (577655) to an Emaj7 (779897) which I find difficult...

Hey Vic, don't forget with E and A-based chords, your open E and A strings are "bonus points," if you will. Why not try using most of what he's going? Use (X07650) for A and either (0X9890) or (X79890) for Emaj7 and see if that might work.

Hope this helps.

Peace


   
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Wes Inman
(@wes-inman)
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Joined: 19 years ago
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I look at this from two different viewpoints. Sometimes you hear a lick that just sounds so fantastic that you have to learn it exactly as was played. An example was the intro to Long Cool Woman by the Hollies. Man, the first time I heard that intro I just had to learn it. And I spent a long time learning that note for note. And when I play that song I play that intro exactly like the recording. But I don't play the rest of the song that way. For one thing, there is three guitars there, so I can't do it. But second, I usually have to sing this song, so I have to keep the guitar pretty simple if I'm going to play and sing well.

You also have to consider that the writer of the song probably played what was easy for him or her. For example, Hendrix had giant hands, it was super easy for him to wrap his thumb over the top and fret the top two strings while fretting the other strings with his fingers. But I can't do this, I do not have very large hands at all.

Clint Eastwood said in a film, "a man's got to know his limitations". And that is so true. I am only 5'9" tall and I learned a long time ago that I am never going to be able to slam dunk a basketball. Believe me, I've tried. :oops:

But I have a pretty darn good jump shot.

So, I could beat myself over the head doing crazy exercises in an attempt to be able to dunk a basketball, but it ain't gonna happen. And you can spend all your time trying to copy Stevie Ray or your favorite guitarist. You might get close, but you are never gonna get it exact.

But why do you want to sound exactly like another guitarist?? It's been done, nobody needs to hear a copycat. So sometimes I play a song completely different on purpose just to sound like myself. :D

If you know something better than Rock and Roll, I'd like to hear it - Jerry Lee Lewis


   
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Cat
 Cat
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Posts: 1224
 

Well... you're a guirarist. Stop worrying about it. Most people don't get good enough to even BEGIN to wonder why they are ABLE to pull off some thievry or other. It's all cool...we all stand on someone's shoulders. Still...credit should always go where it's due. You can (as a good friend did by mentioning Muddy Waters) assuage your karma by leaving a nice album note to your "mentors". Living or dead, they'd like that and it's a right-on thing to do.

Cat

"Feel what you play...play what you feel!"


   
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spides
(@spides)
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Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 157
 

we are but the sum of our experience.

If your gigging that week, do it any way its gonna work for you.
But still go back and try to learn it the way its written. Even if your way is the same as the recording, Or a marked improvement, if you stumble across something you cant do its as good as being told what you need to work on.

Its a ballbreaker, but in the end you find youl have a lot less problems learning other songs

Every time I get confronted with a playing dillemma,i get excited because its a sign that I'm about to improve. Push past my playing threshold.

I do agree with wes, Its rad to have your own sound and be your own player, but at the same time its important to learn from other players as well. Im no metalhead, but i once heard that randy rhoads, whilst on tour with Ozzie, would get out the phone book in every town they played and book himself a lesson with the local classical guitar teacher. Some would argue one of the best players ever, I say because he saw the importance of learning and never got too big headed.

But i digress.

Get your own sound, but make it interesting and exciting by getting as much influence, experience and knowlege from as many varied sources as you can. For gigging, the easy way is often best, for progress, you gotta push yourself.

Don't sweat it dude, just play!


   
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greybeard
(@greybeard)
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Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 5840
 

A lot of tab is correct, as far as the notes goes.

At least an equal amount has never, apparently, been performed by the tabber - the tabbed finger positions are sometimes close to unplayable.

You need to move them, so they actually make sense on the fretboard.

Another reason to move finger positions, is tone. Some tunes just sound wrong, when played at certain fret positions, because there is a difference in tone between wound and unwound strings. There is also a difference in tone between open strings and their "twin notes" at the 5th fret of the next string.

It may mean trying to play a slightly more difficult fingering, but getting the right tone, out of the strings.

I often try to find a video on youtube, to see where the original artist played it.

I started with nothing - and I've still got most of it left.
Did you know that the word "gullible" is not in any dictionary?
Greybeard's Pages
My Articles & Reviews on GN


   
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manti
(@manti)
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Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 28
 

what i'd like to add here is this:

Most long-term development (as you put it) does not come from learning how to play songs but through repetitive practice of repetitive excercises. Playing songs only helps you develop a good ear and find out some interesting techniques (or patterns).

So if you find something which sounds exactly the same but easier to play go for it. You're ruining nothing from your development.

[Manti]
http://www.soundclick.com/Manti


   
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TRGuitar
(@trguitar)
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Don't sweat it Almann. Play it the way you like to. I don't think I play any tab note perfect. I learn the rhythm parts off the tab to get the correct chords, don't necessarily even use the same voicings or position. For the leads, I try to use the same position on the scale but play a lot of my own notes. I like it that way because it's mine. Also, this saves a lot of time learning songs. Learning solo's note for note can be very time consuming. In the end you gotta do what your heart tells you, but that's my advice.

"Work hard, rock hard, eat hard, sleep hard,
grow big, wear glasses if you need 'em."
-- The Webb Wilder Credo --


   
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cnev
 cnev
(@cnev)
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In the end it's really up to you what you want to do, but I am still a believer that most people don't play songs note for note is because, 1 they are to lazy to really learn the whole song correctly or they can't play the song the way the original artist performed it.

What does that mean? Well I guess it depends on you. For me like I mentioned earlier, being able to or at least attempting to play songs note for note gives me a more concrete assessment of how I am progressing. I can either play it exactly like the record or I can't.

Obviously like Wes mentioned there are alot of songs that are either overdubbed or have multiple guitars. In that case you do have to pick one but the process is the same for me, try to play it note for note. Can I do it heck no not for every song I know. I can play all the rhythm parts but my soloing skills aren't quite there yet. But for me ahving that as a goal helps keep me motivated and also a way to measure progress.

But in terms of playing a show I don't think it matters much. As long as you have the feel of the original down and the rest of the song is tight it really doesn't matter if you play note for note. I think the crowd might be an indication. If they are clapping and cheering then it's all good.

"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!


   
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manti
(@manti)
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Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 28
 

After all... do the original artists play it note by note live as they did in the studio? Heck no... so why bother? Especially if you're playing some blazing high-speed solo... doubt anyone's gonna notice you missed a note here and there, let alone actually changing the fingering.

[Manti]
http://www.soundclick.com/Manti


   
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