OK I thought I'd start a new thread rather than tack this on the end of the other post.
Long story short bought an Epi Les Paul Std, which you can see a picture of on my other post. But I'm having a problem with the way it sounds acoustically. I wasn't really able to get an idea when I was at GC buying it because there was too much noise (didn't think about going into the acoustic room) so I just played in plugged into a Fender Deluxe which is the amp I have. Sounded OK, I wouldn't say mind blowing but OK.
I happened to read another post where kingpatzer was talking about listening to an electric acoustically to get an idea of how it will sound when plugged in. Well it doesn't sound good to my ears. I checked everything again last night and everything seems fine with the guitar but when I play the guitar unplugged the only way to describe the sound is hollow, this is especially true on the B and High E. But all the strings sound hollow compared to my MIM Strat which to me sounds great unplugged.
Do you think It could be strings? I would like to try having a complete set up done but I don't want to waste the money if it doesn't fix the problem.
I guess I can call GC and see what they say but I'm not holding my breath that they are going to do anything for me.
I hate to have to bring it back but I might have to.
I haven't run it too hard yet and even played it on my amp but it does sound better plugged than unplugged.
"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!
I also listen the guitars unplugged, if they sound good, they should sound good when plugged (it will not always true, there are many other elements but it is a good approach). And if an electric guitar doesn't sound good unplugged, it can be sound good plugged. The wood and other 'passive' elements are important.
I did read your other post... just a question and perhaps an idea: could you return the guitar easily? I'm sorry, I don't know how to express the idea. I think you are not completely satisfied with the guitar (the gold hardware, the sound when unplugged, etc.), perhaps you could change it for a different LP or a different model.
As you know I have an Epi LP as well and I like it but it is absolutely different to 'my Strat'.
Before I finished your post I was screaming "STRINGS!". You got to give it a chance with new strings.
"Work hard, rock hard, eat hard, sleep hard,
grow big, wear glasses if you need 'em."
-- The Webb Wilder Credo --
Nuno, yes I can return it that's why I really want to see if I can fix first befre time runs out on the return. I could deal with the gold if the guitar sounded great because I'm planning on changing that anyway. Plus I got a pretty good deal on this if I return I'm probably going to have to dump another $100 or more into a replacement.
TR - That's obviously the cheapest solution to try first and since it is more noticable on just two strings maybe they are old. They do sound very dull sounding.
Like I mentioned plugged in it doesn't sound to bad but I really haven't given it a complete run through. I actually prefer if someone else would play it so I can sit back and really listen to the sound sometimes when playing I'm to into playing the music and not really listening to the guitar.
What I should do is go back and try to play it unplugged along with some other LP's. The ones I looked at when I was in QC were either more than I wanted to spend so I didn't waste to much time messing around with them and one of the others had a slightly twisted neck plus it was $140 more.
I don't want to keep a lack luster guitar just because I saved some money but I'd liek to try and fix it if I can.
"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!
What I should do is go back and try to play it unplugged along with some other LP's.
Chances are, the store has a quiet room for big spenders who buy gourmet guitars. Maybe they will let you in there with some LPs.
I don't want to keep a lack luster guitar just because I saved some money but I'd liek to try and fix it if I can.
New strings are a must. I also recommend playing it hard for a while. Others may disagree -- but to me, any wooden guitar, even a solid body, sounds better after it's had some music run through it for a while. Get those molecules vibrating.
If you keep the guitar, there are other things you can do to squeeze a bit more out of the wood if you enjoy tinkering with guitars. If it's a bolt-neck, check the fit at the pocket. You want good wood-to-wood contact there. (Shims are sound-killers IMO.) Same for the nut. (If nut is plastic, get it off there & get a bone nut.) Saddles should allow strings to push straight down onto the bridge.
These all will boost performance somewhat (as will heavier strings), but ultimately if you don't like it, I'd say don't keep it around. It will be a constant bummer. (I have a Charvel import hanging on my guitar wall that is a constant reproach to me, but I can't quite bring myself to get rid of it, because there might be something I can do to make it better....)
"You can't write a chord ugly enough to say what you want to say sometimes, so you have to rely on a giraffe filled with whipped cream." - Frank Zappa
If it sounds good plugged, who cares how it sounds unplugged? But "not that bad" isn't that good...
"A cheerful heart is good medicine."
a typical Strat is a more acoustically live(ly) guitar than a LP. Strats are snappy and that comes through as acoustic volume. LP's have more sustain -- and the only way to do that acoustically is to shed as little as possible as sound to keep the energy stored in the string. so they will def hav different acoustic timbres.
Ric's Q is a good one: is it good plugged in?
to change timbre on a LP, consider these:
Strings (age, gauge ...mentioned well enough already)
String height -- too low will kill sustain, even before obvious buzzing. this is a bridge height adjustment, but the neck relief needs to be correctly set as well.
Nut (mentioned, and mostly applicable to open strings)
Intonation -- slightly off intonation can manifest itself as poor timbre
String break angle over the bridge -- once string height is set up well, play around with the height of the tailpiece. that will change timbre a bit in that a sharper angle (low tailpiece) usually elicits more sustain. a shallower angle (raised tailpiece may provide less sustain and more attack)
pick-up height -- not usually as critical as on a Strat, but too close to the strings can damp vibrations, affect intonation, distort harmonic series
fret crown shape -- flat topped frets ('fretless wonders') are supposedly fast and easy to play. they also have the worst timbre and intonation
lastly (for now): are you used to playing a LP? maybe you need to adjust your technique. nothing like a Strat.
-=tension & release=-
gnease wrote a typical Strat is a more acoustically live(ly) guitar than a LP. Strats are snappy and that comes through as acoustic volume. LP's have more sustain -- and the only way to do that acoustically is to shed as little as possible as sound to keep the energy stored in the string. so they will def hav different acoustic timbres.
That makes sense the only thing that throws it off for me a bit is that it's exaggerated on the B and high E. If those two strings didn't sound so "off" I could probably attribute it to just the difference in guitars.
No I haven't played an LP other than at QC so my experience with it is zero, but right now it's not even about playing I'm just plucking the strings unplugged and the difference is obvious.
I guess a string change is in order being a new guitar you'd think the strings would be fresh but who knows how long this thing has been lying around.
"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!
a typical Strat is a more acoustically live(ly) guitar than a LP. Strats are snappy and that comes through as acoustic volume. LP's have more sustain -- and the only way to do that acoustically is to shed as little as possible as sound to keep the energy stored in the string. so they will def hav different acoustic timbres.
Good point. So if you're a Strat guy, I'd say take a snappy Strat into that quiet room and check it out side by side with some Pauls. :)
Ric's Q is a good one: is it good plugged in?
It's personal preference, but if I don't like the way an electric guitar sounds unplugged, I won't plug it in. I don't have to.
"You can't write a chord ugly enough to say what you want to say sometimes, so you have to rely on a giraffe filled with whipped cream." - Frank Zappa
Crow,
Well that's what I am comparing it too right now my Strat at home and the sound unplugged is like night and day. But in theory what gnease said makes alot of sense.
I think my course of action will be:
1.) Change strings
2.) Call QC and see what they have to say(Really not expecting them to offer up anything other than telling me I can return it)
3.) If strings don't make a differrence then it's down to crunch time do I do anything more, like change the nut, bridge height etc or just bail. I might just bail at that point.
It sucks because I'm not the kind that likes to return stuff that I really wanted and have to wait for a replacement etc. I'm very impatient when it comes to buying toys.
"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!
It's personal preference, but if I don't like the way an electric guitar sounds unplugged, I won't plug it in. I don't have to.
yes, def a personal choice. as I posted to KP elsewhere: while a good rule of thumb, sometimes one may miss out on a gem by not breaking ones own rules. esp on low-end guitars, there are some that are acoustic trash, but sparkle in some unique way when electric.
-=tension & release=-
gnease wrote
I guess a string change is in order being a new guitar you'd think the strings would be fresh but who knows how long this thing has been lying around.
Chris: you also should try two of the very easiest things to adjust -- maybe even before investing in strings: raise the bridge a bit on the treble side. lower the pups if they are very close to the strings.
and honestly -- I will probably get some flack from some for this -- when you change the strings, go to 10s. they will feel about like 9s on your Strat.
-=tension & release=-
as I posted to KP elsewhere: while a good rule of thumb, sometimes one may miss out on a gem by not breaking ones own rules. esp on low-end guitars, there are some that are acoustic trash, but sparkle in some unique way when electric.
Hmm. The conversation has made me realize one of my own "rules": When guitar-shopping, I don't check out the plugged-in character of the instruments. Not at all (other than to make certain the electronics work). Never have. And I'm short-changing myself.
"You can't write a chord ugly enough to say what you want to say sometimes, so you have to rely on a giraffe filled with whipped cream." - Frank Zappa
This is slightly off topic but not to much. I 've been here for a few years now and read hundreds of posts on guitars and shopping for guitars and I have had a little different philosophy about them then some people here. Maybe incorrect I'm not sure.
My contention is the guitar is the sum of a bunch of relatively simple parts (wood, metal maybe even a little plastic) so to me there isn't a lot of reason to try millions of guitars to see how they sound because if they don't sound right then you can just tweak it until it does.
The only thing that should proclude you from this would be if the neck was warped or there was some other inherent issue with the workmanship so other than that I wouldn't see any problem buying a guitar online and as long as it's solidly built you can adjust for shortcomings in tone.
Of course with this thinking that means I shouldbite the bullet and just start changing everything....maybe I shouldn't listen to myself.
"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!
Been re-examining my own guitar habits most of the morning, which is a healthy thing to do now and then....
I seldom if ever really "shop" for guitars. I go into a store "just to look," and something will follow me home, like a stray dog. I've tweaked at least one of my stray dogs for 30 years, with good results. Even so, it's possible to be too patient with problematic instruments. At the same time I dream about guitars I let get away, so there's no good answer for me. Changing everything is a viable option if you can do (or afford) the work, and if you're incredibly patient (or obsessive-compulsive).
If I were deliberately shopping for an electric guitar today, with what I know now, I would bring my headphones and Line 6 Pod 2.0. Definitely would pay close attention to unplugged sounds; but I'd spend some good time with the electronics, as well.
I will however always prefer my stray puppies.
"You can't write a chord ugly enough to say what you want to say sometimes, so you have to rely on a giraffe filled with whipped cream." - Frank Zappa
