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conscious vs unconsious guitar playing

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(@anonymous)
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Joined: 17 years ago
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a lot of times when i'm playing around on the guitar, my mind will drift off after a few minutes, while my fingers will keep going on making music. sometimes a few minutes after that, i'll find that i'm playing something pretty cool, but other times i'll find myself standing in front of the fridge looking for something to eat before i snap back into reality. i also make pretty decent sounds sometimes when i am focused on what i'm doing and attempting to consiously control it. i'm not talking about technical exercises, i mean the actual creative process.
so what do you guys have to say about the subject? should i try to stay focused, or is it better for me to zone out and let it be a subconsious sort of thing? are there any deeper views or explanations of this phenomenon?


   
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(@demoetc)
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Practice consciously, purposefully, but know when to turn it off and be "Alternatively Conscious" I guess would be a better term for 'unconscious.' There's both sides of the coin. Physical, mental training should be done with the utmost focus and 'on-purpose-ness' whereas the creative part of things really isn't 'unconscious' per se; it's more like you're tuning into the inner side of things; intuition, the 'inner music' - that kind of thing.

Develop both.


   
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(@dogbite)
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Joined: 19 years ago
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it is hard to take notes unconsciously.

how can you possibly learn anything while staring at your frig contents and playing at the same time?

inspiration and creative thought does come in an unconscious manner sometimes. to develop that idea one has to be conscious.

I dont want to come off here as hard nosed or anal. I am an artist often floating about in a semi conscious state....er, let me rephrase that...deep in thought and only having one foot in reality.

to then take that revery to a reality it takes a firm step in that direction or nothing happens.
and you wont be able to repeat that genius thought either.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=644552
http://www.soundclick.com/couleerockinvaders


   
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(@dagwood)
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This a great topic, one which I've studied to some extent in Grad School and observed and strived for in the "Real World".

Simply put there are four stages or level I've discovered in the cycle toward the ultimate goal.

They are in order
1. Unconscious Incompetency
2. Conscious Incompetency
3. Consious Competency
4. Unconscious Competency (The Goal).

These can be applied to many things, like guitar playing or riding a motorcycle or golf or doing a part of our jobs.

First: basically means, we don't know what we don't know (don't know how to do something or don't know a skill or a task).
Second: We understand that we don't know (I don't know that song so I read the Tab or Notation note by note try to play and memorize the note/chord sequence).
Third: We're almost there but its not completely automatic. (This is where a lot of people get to and stay - like typing for example, we all type but how many of us look at the keys every once in a while or ALL the time, to find the "X" or "?")
Fourth: This is what seperates the MASTERS from the rest of the crowd. Nirvana - (Not the Band but becoming one, the ZEN, Those Guitar players that mainly look up and out, or those that sing and play, or those that type with the 8 fingers and never if rarely look at the keyboard) True Mastership of the task or skill at hand.

If you look around at all things in the world, art, sports, music, You'll see many folks, even ourselves, that are at this fourth stage with something we do in lives.

I remember the first time this happened to me on my motorcycle, becoming one with the machine, seeing every rock, stone, or whatever in the road, knowing instincively how fast I was going, if I was coming into a corner too hot, slowing then accelerating in a smooth way and just hugging the road I was on. It was Heaven and I try to achieve this state everytime I go out.

Or check out the coming Olympics, Those ice skaters and other "PERFORMANCE" based Sports are all about being at the fourth level. I don't know about anyone else, but I really need to concentrate when I'm on Ice skates or I'll break my arse for sure, but to them, they don't even think about that one footed turn going backwards with the other leg in the air. Its Awesome.

As far as Guitar I'm stuck between 2 and 3 most of the time. Not knowing and then knowing but still have to look, but I'm mostly on 2. :)

Some songs that I play all the time, or those riffs/chord progressions (Wish you were here Intro, a Fav of mine) I can get into that 4th realm and its a great place to be and its my ultimate goal to be there and stay there with all of my playing. Then I think I can truely go to an open mic and tear out some truely improved blues riffs or Chord progressions... that's one of my goals. :)

Isn't is a great journey? :)

But it comes with practice and then more practice and then some more. The pro's even practice or rehearse, its just the way of it. And like my old guitar teacher always said, Its better to practice Slowly and correctly than to Practice fast and sloppy.

Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing. - Wernher Von Braun (1912-1977)


   
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(@anonymous)
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Joined: 17 years ago
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Topic starter  

Multiple personality disorder or attack by aliens...anyone ?? :lol:


   
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(@dagwood)
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Multiple personality disorder or attack by aliens...anyone ?? :lol:

I think MPD is more likely....

Alice I said Shut up!!
Tom Sit down and be quiet.
Jimmy, you had way too much coffee this morning

hehehehehehehehehe :wink: :wink: :wink: :lol:

Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing. - Wernher Von Braun (1912-1977)


   
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(@teleplayer324)
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IN an iterview when asked about songwriting Keith Richardss replies somewhat along the line that he doesn't sit down and consciously try to write. He says he will sit down and start playing other peoples stuff and after 15-20 songs something will "Channel" through. He say he firmly believes that people don't "write" music, that they can on occasion open themselves up to what is floating around out there and become "Receptors" for it.

Immature? Of course I'm immature Einstein, I'm 50 and in a Rock and ROll band.

New Band site http://www.myspace.com/guidedbymonkeys


   
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(@guitargeek-9)
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Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 15
 

i know exactly what you mean. it happens to me all the time, ill be playing then ill just start to talk to my friend, and then i forget what i was playing. the worst is when you play something absoloutly sweet and it catches your ear...and then your like Crap, what did i do? :x well i try to stay focused because you actually learn more that way.

Rock on.


   
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(@wes-inman)
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Hmmm.........

I'm not into Zen, and I've never really forgotten where I was when playing guitar.

Playing guitar is somewhat like typing. I took typing in High School and was taught not to look at the keyboard. I am not looking at the keyboard whatsoever as I type this. I am certainly not a master at typing, I think I got up around 50 WPM. I DO have to look when typing numbers, should have taken another year of classes. :D

But this is not unconscious whatsoever. I am thinking the words I want to type, and typing them. But you have to know the words and how to spell them. So, it is not unconscious at all.

And the same with guitar. I do not have to look, although I often do. For me, it is playing the sounds I have heard from many years of practice. I am pretty good at making whatever sound I hear in my head. When I play, I go from one idea to another. When improvising, I do not plan it out. I let one musical phrase give me an idea for another.

I can relate guitar more to skateboarding or surfing. I did a lot of that as a kid. When you surf, you never know what you are going to do on a wave, because each wave is different. You just flow from one idea to the next. But you have to have a knowledge of what you can do, and you have to have a knowledge of waves and how they work. When you see a wave closing out on you, you know from experience that you can turn sharply into it and bank off the lip. This is called a roller coaster. But you don't think about your feet or shifting your weight or things like that. But it is not unconscious at all, although you are open to do any manuver that might present itself.

For music, you have to have lots of experience. You must know the notes of your scale. Not by letter name, but how they sound. And so when you want to hear a certain sound or melody, you must be very familiar with how to do it. You must have been there before many times. This allows you to improvise freely. And you have to have a good judgement of how certain intervals sound. This allows you to create melodies or musical ideas on the spot.

I am certainly no master, but I can come pretty close to playing what I hear in my head most of the time. But I am not unconscious at all, I am listening and thinking about the next idea or phrase I want to hear.

Sorry for the long ramble. Still not looking at the keyboard though. :D

If you know something better than Rock and Roll, I'd like to hear it - Jerry Lee Lewis


   
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(@dagwood)
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I hear you Wes and thanks for the Surf Story I too can relate to that.

The "Unconcious" in this instance doesn't mean I can play the intro to Black Dog in my Sleep. Instead your thinking of the next phrase or the next Sounds you want to make and just do it without having to stop and go.. ok "How" do I make that so? Uh ok, index finger 5th fret on the G string then the middle on the 8th fret B string back to the Index on the fifth frest .. You just instinctively do it.

As in typing you know what the next word(s) your going to type, but you don't have to stop and look for each letter in the word, you don't have to stop and think.... you just keep typing along.

What I was describing is a known Learning Theory Model and a measurement of competency.

Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing. - Wernher Von Braun (1912-1977)


   
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(@pearlthekat)
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try recording yourself when your unconsciously playing and see if it still sounds good the next day....


   
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(@anonymous)
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Topic starter  

it's not an intentional thing, i've just been playing long enough (13 years) that a lot of times i'll get to the point that i'm not listening to or thinking about what i'm doing, like when you're having a conversation with someone and five seconds later, you have no idea what was said. i'll quite literally be sitting there thinking about something somebody said the day before, then suddenly i realize i'm playing something new. so there's no way for me to record this process without just recording everything i play, and there's no way i could do that.


   
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(@anonymous)
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Topic starter  

Hendrix was one of the sufferers ...but wait ! this was his speciality.

All the time , music revolved in his head.It was like ..suddenly he won't be around in the real world and lost somewhere.You would think he's gone mad or have a lunatic attack but that was him.The riffs just went on in the cerebrum ...blues were so much embedded that he was lost in the other world many times in a day.

That does not mean you will be jimi if you don't pay attention , but music is something that can take you to another world...literally :wink:

Rahul


   
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(@thectrain)
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Posts: 126
 

I think as we practice we learn to use another part of our brain that wasn't being used before. For example playing and singing at the same time was impossible when I first started. Now its nothing and its impossible to imagine it being difficult.


   
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(@anonymous)
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Topic starter  

i am enjoying all these varied responses on the subject. you've all made this an interesting thread.


   
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