Electric Guitar - Dynamics

The first thing that comes to mind is a question for you.

At what volume do you usually play?

If it isn't very loud (ie stage loud) this could be part of your problem as I only really notice 'dynamics' with what your describing when playing at performance volume like when I'm at an open mic and I'm nervous as hell anyway to get up and play in the first place. I'll 'over strum' a chord or a 'over pick' a lead riff or something.

I remember my instructor once asking me at what volume I usually practice at... my answer was, "mostly bedroom volume".
He made the suggestion, that I practice at Loud volumes if/when I could... "Because", he said, "its almost like a different way of playing." "You'll see.", he winked.

I personally find value in playing loud and no not to annoy the neighbors or all the cats in the neighborhood either....hehehe.
Along with that, its also important to play with other people or against a backing track that is equally loud. Becoming part of the "MIX" at "Volume" is a whole different animal than just plinking along alone at home. Not only are we talking about guitar/amp dynamics but dynamics with the vocals, drums, bass and the rest of the team.

If you watch enough live music you'll see the guitar guys are always fiddling with either their volume knobs or a pedal or two during the songs and in between the songs, (Though that's probably just re-tuning in between). I don't think there's a simple fix to it if for no other reason, blame the drummer......hehehehehe (Sorry drummers).

Seriously though, some drummers may pound just a tad harder -or- softer from one song to the next which causes everyone else to adjust even a little bit.

I always find this a challenge. Because I grew up playing trumpet in my "formative years," I learned that phrasing and dynamics are really as important in making interesting music as the choices of notes. I can't abide flat, un-punctuated playing for very long. It's lifeless, no matter how many notes are being whipped out of the instrument. Everything sounds like harpsichord -- more notes or less, but no other expression.

Like you, I play in pretty much all modes: electric, steel acoustic, nylon, slide, picks, fingers (nails and pads), fingerpicks. I also will slap and pop strings without shame -- anything for attention. One thing that has helped me improve dynamic control has been to practice (and perform!) the mixing of single note lines with intervals (such as octaving) and triads. Often, I want these all to come out an nearly the same loudness to mesh smoothly -- only nailed when I want 'em nailed. While equalizing loudness isn't exactly the same as using dynamic emphasis, it requires the development of dynamic control right at the fingers. And it is not easy. There's a lot of fingers-to guitar-to amp-ear-back to fingers feedback that has to take place until the fingers start to learn to it somewhat automatically. When I first started to mix singles, intervals and chords it sounded very awkward. I think it's gotten better as I've developed a better dynamic touch.

A big problem I have with dynamic playing is that is often gets lost in a live electric mix unless there is a LOT of sonic space: either a sparse arrangement (try to get that while jamming) or by choosing a voicing away from everyone else (and when jamming, someone inevitably follows you there anyway :roll: ). In more 'densely instrumented' electric performances, dynamic playing will often sound a be tentative, as if you are popping in and out with notes once in a while. It can even get to the point of sounding out of time if doing something such as a pinky volume swell. The beginning subtlety of the note is missed and the rest of it rises out of the mix at some random time. Crap. My point? Practice and perform dymanic playing with a good set of players who know how to leave space for you. One of David's many talents, BTW.

And buy the volume pedal anyway. Sometimes you gotta be your own soundman.

Cheers Greg,

Yeah, I've listened to way too much trumpet, sax, violin, etc, etc, playing to be a guitarist, lol. Agreed, it does work way better when there's space in the music, which I tend to favour, anyway (although sonic, um, 'girth' can be kewl too sometimes). I'm definitely after "dynamic control right at the fingers" as you put it so well - especially when jamming in a situation where there are lots of guitarist each taking solos (not nec. all playing backing through the rest of the piece).....there's so much repietition, especially over e.g. a 12 bar, that dynamic shifts can really make a player stand out. I also want to get damn good at that Luther Allison/Buddy Guy/B B King style of playing a tune pretty loud, and then going into a "quiet bit" and then pulling back out of it.

I'll spend some time working on mixing intervals, as you suggested, I can totally see the logic in that having a positive effect on control.

Is there anything setup-wise that might have a positive effect? (Anything, from trying different pots, to pup adjustments, etc, etc, I'm willing to tinker........as if that really needed stating, lol). The main axe I use is, surprisingly, a strat, but I do like to chop and change between guitars now I have a nice selection of them. 8)

The volume pedal may well get purchased and added at some point, but I'm trying for JB-style no-effects yet still fsonically formidable, IKYKWIM. :wink:

I mix practice volumes up a fair bit, sometimes loud, sometimes not so. I find, generally, the louder you get the harder it can be to get much dynamic range (aside from just rolling back the volume control, lol - there's less effect from using your fingers differently is what I'm saying). Or maybe just to my ears, anyway (which'll effect my control of it, natch). There's probably some scientific explanation/jargon for this, but I don't know it.

For me the most important part of getting good dynamics come from having a punchy signal that offers highly reposonsive pick attack.
I use a Keeley Flexy Tube Screamer for my clean tone - Gain at 0, tone at just under 3 o'clock and level around 11 o'clock. So I have Tube screamer doing most of the work on my clean channel, such that when I turn it off the volume drops.
What this means I have a very powerful midrange punch in my signal (not all muddy, as the Keeley mod does such a great job) so its VERY responsive to pick attack and hence I have fantastic dynamic control...Maybe it's a tube distortion thing i dunno.
As for my distorted sound...Well I have a Laney LC-30 II tube amp which is pretty responsive too.
Its all down to your gear really. You can be a great player, with great control but if your equipment doesn't facilitate it your gonna sound flat.
The moral of story, find something with great tone (like a tube screamer) which will add a hump somewhere in your EQ range to facilitate picking dynamics

Using an overdrive or turning up the amp gain usually takes away from dynamics. If you're on the edge of "saturation," changing your attack will increase or decrease the amount of clipping giving dynamic variation in the tone, but the volume will stay relatively constant. Dynamics (volume, that is) that you can control by your playing technique require playing clean.

Dynamics (volume, that is)

And that is precisely what I want!

Cheers Ric....since I have a tube amp, this probably explains my earlier post about cranking my amp leading to less ability to vary the dynamics from using my fingers.

I have been trying to record a friend for the last month. he plays acoustic. I mike the guitar and his voice with two mikes.
he sngs softly, so I am encouraging him to sing louder. he plays softly until he reaches a point where he gets into it. every time he plays louder and bangs the pick guard; spiking the recording. it sounds awful live and recorded.
I asked him to not do that. he said that invariably when he wants to play with emotion he bangs the strings harder.
I made him tape a note to the vocal mike so he could read it...play with feeling and emotion but not louder.

makes perfect sense. it is very hard to do.

that said, scrybe, I use my fingers to play with more dynamic and feel. vibratos are worked until a note's character comes out. the overtones are in there, one just does not give t time to happen. I also play all over the guitar with the right hand.
there are sweet spots on a strat. about fret 28. I also pick near the bridge and over the higher frets on the neck. all those things change the feel and tone. I love the volume pedal. it adds expression . i did the pinky thing for a long time. now the vol pedal takes over. still, the pinky vol control knob thing is handy and a good technique to learn.
I love how Jeff Beck plays. he uses the whammy more often to bend a note than he does the standard way. that takes a hundred years of training I bet.
the strat is so versitle . you should not have to mess with pickups etc.
after I began playing lap steel and learning two note two string harmony scales I began playing more of theose 'double stops', as they are called,on my guitar. that opened doors for me. I began to think and see differently.

I hope this helps.
sounds like you hit a platteau. bummer.

awww, not so much a plateau. well, maybe. but I don't mind that, I just mind the "not knowing how to best go about getting further results" bit. the, uh, not being omniscient or just a genius, basically. :wink:

One thing I'm working on is doing vibrato, then slowly adding a volume swell, but trying to do it more to keep a steady volume - you get that anyway as sustain if the amp's loud enough, but I wanna be able to it when I'm playing quieter, too. :evil: and then I wanna mess with volume swells and vibrato combined in a more obvious/creative way.

yeah, one of my key goals for the year is to really try to up things on the technique front all round really. that, and getting all my gear in top condiition (and improve my general knowledge of keeping it there, hence the modding thread).

Jeff Beck is, as might have become ever so slightly perceptible on these boards since I joined, my favourite guitarist ever without doubt. On electric guitar, anyway (haven't heard him play much acoutic, now that I come to think of it, I can't think of a single track. Or much rhythm playing in later years either, for that matter). He is truly awesome. His control of his instrument and range of expression is utterly phenomenal, and we should all bow down in worship of his holiness.

But I don't wanna just end up a cheap imitation, constantly running after his heels. I wanna keep a safe distance, while also learning some things from him. Hard balance to strike. But I reckon if anyone's good enough to copy him well, they're good enough to contribute to the creativity, so.......

the practicing continues. :wink:

I might consider guitar lessons again later in th year, if I can afford it. The key is finding someone who can work with me on the things I want to work on. My last guitar (and only, really, not counting ol' pops) tutor was awesome and worth going back to, but Im not sure he's the right guy to work with me on the stuff I wanna work on right now. I could really do with someone with JB's creativity and an ability to teach. Finding that is gonna be hard. Actually, I think in many ways, a good classical guitar tutor, or even getting classical piano lessons might be better than most guitar tutors around these parts. The mentality is transferable, and being around that mentality would be an inspiration (and working on those other instruments would be fun and rewarding, too). I need somene who's gonna be quite demanding of me, too, have high expectations and a strong sense of professionalism and all that. I might be in the wilderness on this for a while.

In other ways, that's a good thing. I'm far far far from perfect or great on guitar. But I am a lot more confident in my abilities, what I wanna do, and where I wanna go nowadays. The whole purpose of having a tutor is to reach a point where you no longer need one. Its quite nice to know that (while I do need one) many tutors around here are unsuitable for where I'm at and trying to go. A bit of an achievement, even if it is a frustrating one.

So, any more suggestions for going from pppp to ffff using just my fingers on an electric guitar guys? :wink:

a long shot. try a typewriter and send off a plea to JB. who knows?
does he reside in England or the states?

Using an overdrive or turning up the amp gain usually takes away from dynamics. If you're on the edge of "saturation," changing your attack will increase or decrease the amount of clipping giving dynamic variation in the tone, but the volume will stay relatively constant. Dynamics (volume, that is) that you can control by your playing technique require playing clean.

I dunno if that was direct response to my suggestion about the Keely Tube Screamer, but to clarify - I use it with 0 gain. Hence the signal remains absolutely crystal clear no matter how hard I strum, but it then has a punch which facilitates much better dynamic control (especially over volume), than without it.

Using an overdrive or turning up the amp gain usually takes away from dynamics. If you're on the edge of "saturation," changing your attack will increase or decrease the amount of clipping giving dynamic variation in the tone, but the volume will stay relatively constant. Dynamics (volume, that is) that you can control by your playing technique require playing clean.

I dunno if that was direct response to my suggestion about the Keely Tube Screamer, but to clarify - I use it with 0 gain. Hence the signal remains absolutely crystal clear no matter how hard I strum, but it then has a punch which facilitates much better dynamic control (especially over volume), than without it.

so then, in effect, your pedal is acting as a compressor somewhat.

I've used a volume pedal for years. It's much easier to keep both hands playing while the foot adjusts the volume when needed.

Sara-

IMO, a Strat is a v. good guitar for wide dynamic, expressive playing. The single coils provide good attack when needed. Going further, the flexibility of having a 'bucker in the bridge only improves on that with the option for a thicker, driving tone -- and I see your newest project will probably have that feature. But no matter the guitar, It's my experience that unless you are the only guitarist, or work with a really good guitaring partner (as well as others in the band), it's tough to go from pppp to fffff and be heard across that range, whether with touch control or FX intervention. That's the reason a lot of players have their touch dynamics translated from loudness variation to tonal/timbral changes using amps in saturation, possibly with OD pedals. So variable playing aggressiveness takes one from relatively clean to louder clean to a bit dirty and crunchy to nastier -- all with fingers and volume control on guitar. But the overall loudness doesn't really change too much - probably no more than 10 or 12 dB. That has the obvious plus/minus tradespace.

I happen to love swell effects. Before I could afford a good volume pedal or an envelope filter, I did it with good ole pinkie on volume knob. David could relate this, as the first "real" studio recording of one of his early tunes includes my rudimentary pinkievolume swell lead. Hopefully, it is now a lost recording :oops: Recorded performance aside, using that same effect live is not nearly as effective unless I smother my signal in pedal distortion and use a post distortion/pre-amplifier foot pedal to do the deed. Sure, I could do it from the guitar volume, but it doesn't work as well in the live mix. But even so, I really don't use the volume pedal so much as an effect, but more to normalize my volume with respect to the rest of the players. I recommend it more for that latter purpose than any other. Swell is best used sparingly.

-=G

Love dynanmic playing.

IMO, the best at that style is Peter Green.
His dynamics more than any other aspect of his playing defined his soulful expression:
His ability to translate feelings into sound.

My guitar teacher (way back when) didn't like British Blues players - So, he countered
my obsession with (and my begging him to show me how to play like) Peter Green, with; Roy Buchanan 8)
(Who did a lot of volume swell dynamics on his Tele)

Certainly not limited to just volume swells though - there are plenty of great vids on Youtube of RB playing live
and doing incredibly dynamic things on his guitar.

The solo on Derek & The Dominos (sic) Bell Bottom Blues comes to mind with dynamics.

In that solo, Clapton plays low volume clean (56 Strat/5 watt Tweed Champ), and so the dynamics were literally at his fingers.
He sounds like he's playing with his fingers (as it seems most dynamic players do: PG, Mark Knopfler, Robbie Krieger....)

He uses 'tricks' like alternating from 'pad' picking to faux pick (with thumb and index finger pressed together).... Extending his thumb a bit furthur out to get 'Pinch Harmonics', which are a bit sweeter than say RB's or Billy Gibbon's because of
lack of volume (though Robbie Robertson sure does a nice job with Pinch Harmonics! 8) And is wonderfully dynamic).

And 'Non-Picking' - that is, to go thru some notes with the freting fingers, using no

picking technique at all.

Non-Picking is a great way to get a dynamic feel in lead playing.
Figuring out the best time to use it, and how to lead into it and follow up/finish it are just as important though.

Palm Muting techniques are also a great way to change dynamics.
There's a lot more to palm muting than meets the eye, and a heavy exploration of all it's slight variances is recomended.
Different amp settings, different guitar volumes, radical to slight palm placings all change the affect somewhat.

As Ric mentioned - Most of the 'Old Time' Electric Blues players tended to turn the volume on their amps up to 7 or 8 (out of 10).
This would usually be on the edge of break up, allowing them to play with the heaviest clean tone they could get, and then
by playing slightly harder, push into overdrive.
Usually playing double stops would also push into overdrive.... So you could do some nice quiet clean playing.... some non-picking, then hit a double stop that would be loud and overdriven/fuzzy, and back to clean and soft.... all with just your fingers.

I find that having the guitar volume on 10 is a bit hard to control (dynamic wise) (I'm a bit out of practice though - I'm sure someone with more discipline wouldn't mind so much)

So, to gain more dynamic control, I like a nice loud amp setting, and a lower guitar volume setting.
That seems to be more forgiving if you vary the 'pressure' used with your

technique accidentally.
That is, you wont have any volume swells when you didn't intend to :?

Well, I guess I carried on a bit - Have fun learning/experimenting :D

Ken

ps
Using a pick, I used to turn the pick edge wise (and I always played with the round end to the strings), and then instead of
'picking' the strings with the flat side, I would simply 'rub' the strings lightly....
Roy Buchanan does something similar, only he still uses the flat side of the pick, placing it flat on the string, he then pulls
straight out instead of going up or down with it.