I am working commiting to memory the major scale in every key on every postion of the neck, and then I am guessing that I can retain other scales due to their relation to the major scale (I hope).
'In every key'....I've always found that an incredibley challenging way of looking at it. What I'd strongly reccomend (speaking from experience) is to learn the scale, every shape one at a time, in a guitar friendly key - So for the major scale an easy place to learn is with the first shape on the G, and with pentatonic in A, harmonic minor in E etc. (Great thing is those scales in those keys connect)
To get to know a shape once you played up and down it a few times, is to just improvise with for a while.
Then once you know a scale in one key all over the fretboard and are very familiar with it, can improvise all over it, start it off in a different key and start try to move around the connecting shapes of the scale with improv'.
Basically the idea is to learn the how one shape flows into the next, so that you dont just end up saying "yes i have strictly learnt A, C, and E major scales" but instead have a full grasp of the scale and can move it about at will.
And great thing is that if you learnt several scales in connecting keys that I mentioned, you will be able to move about to different key and still see those connections and really make your playing sound interesting!
What I'd strongly reccomend (speaking from experience) is to learn the scale, every shape one at a time, in a guitar friendly key - So for the major scale an easy place to learn is with the first shape on the G, and with pentatonic in A, harmonic minor in E etc. (Great thing is those scales in those keys connect)
This is how my guitar teacher is approaching it with me. Although I knew several of the scales in open positions, and could construct them with the interval patterns at other places slowly, he has me playing G major in all the patterns across the entire fretboard and connecting them. Now we are working on some sequences on these patters as well.. I do think it has helped me connect what's in my head about notes and such to something I can play..
--vink
"Life is either an adventure or nothing" -- Helen Keller
Vink & Simon - thank you both. Last night after I typed my post I realized that I am probably doing this the hard way.
I re-read the theory part of the grimoire and started to suspect that I missing something, but what?
Reading both of your posts made it finally click. The grimoire teaches like 7 shapes for each scale and say for F major you play shape 1 in position one, then shape 2 in position 2, etc. this gives you a major scale all the way up the neck - this is what I was trying to memorize - every note and interval along the way. But multipy that time all the different keys and modes and that's not scalable (pun intended).
So, for F# you just slide the whole mess up a fret and play like you are in F, except the thing "wraps around" and in position 1 you play scale shape 7 - so there is a system to the whole thing -- like you both said learn the shapes. In G you play shape 1 at the 3rd fret and shapes 6 & 7 "wrap around" and get played in positons 1 and 2 respectively
The modes work the same way; want a F Dorian (the 2nd mode of the major scale) just play pattern 2 in position 1.
Thanks for epiphany guys. Also realized that this is a bit O.T. sorry about that.
They show 7 shapes for each scale, because each shape starts from a different note... there are 7 notes in a major scale (or a mode).
That actually leaves out a few! If you take the approach that a position is where your first finger gets at least one note, a major scale can be played in 11 different fingerings - the only spot where you won't have a first finger note is a minor third (three frets) above the 6th string root.
Right idea with the modes, though - since each mode has the same notes as any other related mode, the fretboard notes are identical. The problem, though, is this makes 'em very hard to use... you really can't approach modes in a practical way through fingering patterns.
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Great topic and discussion everyone. I also have some questions concerning scales. I appreciate all you experienced players giving me some advice.
Some background on myself first. I'm an old guy starting the acoustic guitar again after 40 years away. Wish I would have had the internet back then! Guitar Noise and all the other sites are great. I also like music theory.
I also just bought the first three books in the Guitar Grimoire series, too. I was approaching things with various scales using Peter Vogl's Scale book plus different software freebies on the internet.
I was getting frustrated while trying to learn scales by not having all the harmonized chords in the scale in their various positions on the fret board. That's why I bought the Grimoire series especially the second and third books. But here are some questions:
1. The Grimoire scale approach seems to use the 6th string root approach. Using an acoustic guitar it starts to be a stretch down at the 12th fret. Shouldn't I learn scales on the 5th and 4th roots, also?
2. Concerning #1 above, when you improvise, say in the IV and V modes, aren't you taking off within the original I pattern? In other words, using the Grimoire approach, if I'm playing a G Major pattern at the 3rd fret 6th string and then want to go into the D Mixolydian scale would I jump up to the D on the 6th string to improvise?
3. Also, I've noticed that the Grimoire Scales and Modes scales are the three finger sweeping patterns. Is that what is the best to learn to begin with?
4. When you all practice scales do you also play all the harmonized chords for that scale? If I'm playing the G major scale from the 3rd fret do you also play all the harmonized chords for that key around that 3rd fret position - Am, Bm, C, D7, Em, F Dim? Also, do you practice all the possible chords/extensions for that scale, e.g. 7's, 11's, 13's, dim, etc.?
I appreciate any help you can give me.
Dan
