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Experts needed =(

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(@guitaristanime)
Active Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 5
Topic starter  

Hi - I'm new here and after some advice.

I've been playing now for the best part of 6 years. I try and practice everyday (which as I'm sure is a running theme somewhat doesn't always happen - but I do my best) practice lasts for 30mins-1hour usually.
I feel as though my playing has no structure, which is what leads me to post here. In the past year I've made, what feels like, little progress; certainly not in comparison to the previous 5 years before that.
I put this down to the lack of structure in my playing and learning however maybe I am wrong.

I started out with a Squier Bullet Strat and a small 10w practice amp, since then I have purchased an Epiphone Les Paul Standard, a Jackson DK2M, a Line6 Floor Pod and a Vox Valvetronix 15W Tube.

The equipment definitely boosted my motivation and gave me some experience with different sounds but it has only since demotivated me knowing that I cannot produce the sounds of guitarists that I desire, all down to my technique.

Now I'm not saying I'm a terrible guitarist but when it comes to experience I have none outside of my own flat, like in a band environment and the only song I've ever managed to learn entirely is Brothers in Arms (minus the 1 fast lick near the end) and even then it's not perfect (but who is right)

I suppose the important thing is that I still enjoy playing but I would certainly appreciate some constructive criticism and feedback from a group that offer it.

Apologies for the long post but I believe it to be better than posting later with the info I missed :) thanks all look forward to your replies

EDIT: Just to tag as I forgot to add, I've not had a lesson before, everything I've learnt has been by ear and by using Guitar Pro, this means that I have very little knowledge of Chords and something which I have just realized - keys :p (how bad is that?)


   
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(@alangreen)
Member
Joined: 22 years ago
Posts: 5342
 

Well, welcome to the party. Let's see what we can suggest.

30-60 minutes a day is a reasonable workout, but you have to do some "working out" to make it really worthwhile

Let's look at your practise regime. How do you break up your time? Somewhere in that 60 minutes, after a few minutes warmup, there needs to be some time devoted to technical development - barre chords/ chord extensions/ soloing etc; there needs to be something like 30 minutes dedicated to working new repertoire; and there needs to be some time allocated to keeping the existing repertoire fresh.

So, let's start with the technical. We have a bunch of lessons on this site which will help you develop your technical abilities in all sorts of ways. We cover scales, we cover blues shuffle, we cover strumming (get the early podcasts), and we cover a bit of theory. Actually, saying "we cover a bit of theory" is a bit like saying "Lennon & McCartney wrote a few tunes." Ten minutes a day will make a heap of difference to your playing.

New repertoire. Pick three songs you want to learn and learn them. We've got a heap over on the Songs for Beginners pages here, and there are loads for intermediate players too. It doesn't matter if you don't like them all, the important thing is what you can learn from playing them. Even if you don't like them, if you're out and someone gets the guitars out and says "wanna jam? Can you play <song name>" if you can play it, it doesn't matter if you don't like it because you're getting playing experience. Allow 30 minutes for this part of your practise session.

Existing repertoire. You don't need to practise everything you can play every day. Most of the time it'll need to be kept ticking over. Twenty minutes for this cos that's all the time you've got left in your hour. You can even use this time to record something - listen to it, it'll tell you where you might need to pay some particular attention. Put it up online, we can all chip in with our two penn'orth.

A :-)

"Be good at what you can do" - Fingerbanger"
I have always felt that it is better to do what is beautiful than what is 'right'" - Eliot Fisk
Wedding music and guitar lessons in Essex. Listen at: http://www.rollmopmusic.co.uk


   
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(@guitaristanime)
Active Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 5
Topic starter  

That's some excellent advice, in answer to question:
How do you break up your time? - In short I don't, I flick everything on and play whatever comes out of my fingers in somewhat a jumbled string of solos, unless there's a song I've heard on the radio or wherever, at which point I grab the guitar pro file for it learn the basic structure of where it's played on the neck and improvise the rest until it's in-tune with the song :oops:

I don't actually know what a chord extension even is!

I will take your advice and tomorrow, I'll try and start over with the lessons here.

Really appreciate your time, thankyou


   
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(@lue42)
Reputable Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 356
 

I can't really add much, other than what worked for me.

As suggested... pick a few songs and learn them all the way through. I am only about a year into learning... but I spent a long time learning a few bars of a lot of songs... but really never learning to play anything. Since my instructor "told me to"... I have settled down and chose only a few songs to play. I have switched them around a few times, added some more and in only a couple of months can now play 3 or 4 songs pretty well all the way through and have about 10 songs that I can now play pretty decent.

This has increased my enjoyment dramatically, increased my focus, made my wife very happy and has given me a good second wind of interest in playing when I previously almost gave up learning. My technique has improved a lot, as I am forcing myself to learn all parts of the song, including the hard parts... not just intro's and riffs.

My Fingerstyle Guitar Blog:
http://fsguitar.wordpress.com

My Guitars
Ibanez Artwood AWS1000ECE-NT
Schecter S-1 30th Anniversary Edition
Ovation CS257
LaPatrie Etude
Washburn Rover RO10


   
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(@guitaristanime)
Active Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 5
Topic starter  

I am back, been putting in 45mins of practice since I wrote last. I decided I wanted to learn the solo from 'New Love in Town - Europe' however I am stuck already, not a tab sheet in sight and as far as learning it by ear goes I'm not getting very far as I'm finding it difficult to distinguish sections of it relative to the fret board. I have the first bit anyhow starting at the 9th fret on G (9--9-12-11-9), man I'm so bad at this, been here for about half an hour trying to work out even the next bar properly.

Is there somewhere I can post for help on this sort of thing here on the forum? Maybe I am approaching this all wrong..


   
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(@easewlad)
Active Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 11
 

Hi,

Not an expert. Tabbing it out yourself by ear is a skill that is well worth developping
and, I hope for my sake, will become easier in time. Knowing the key and where the
notes are will help immensely

How I try to do this,
Make sure that you can know it so well that you can sing/whistle/hum it to yourself.
Hold the note in your head
Find note on Fretboard,
Next note, higher/lower a lot/little, with time you will recognise intervals.

or

Cheat: There are some vids on you tube that show covers of this solo. One in particular
shows the fingering quite clearly.


   
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 cnev
(@cnev)
Famed Member
Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 4459
 

Training your ear is very valuable so I would continue with that. I can't do it very well but listen to the bass it's a good place to start becuase many times the bass is playing the root notes and then you can figure the chord from that.

"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!


   
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(@guitaristanime)
Active Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 5
Topic starter  

Where do guitarists stand on improvising solos instead of learning the studio recorded versions?
I have to admit I enjoy this more and weirdly this is something I am able to do by ear given that I've listened to the track a few times I now know roughly where it is played on the neck, so I can see the shape in my head.

Is this something that is frowned up for someone learning. Appreciate your opinions.

I will of course continue to learn by ear as I have been doing as it is something of a challenge for me and I enjoy the difficulty (most of the time)

As far as the lessons go which were commented on at the start of the thread, I have looked at a few and made a start and will continue to eat as much information as I can, though after a few lessons I feel myself drifting off into an improvisation and thus all learning pre-10minutes is wasted :roll:


   
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 Ande
(@ande)
Prominent Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 652
 

Where do guitarists stand on improvising solos instead of learning the studio recorded versions?

Like most things, opinions vary. Mine is that improvising solos is an important skill on most instruments, takes practice and should be practiced. Also, if you just learn the studio version, then in performance, it isn't really you, it's a copy of the original. Might as well play the CD as the guitar in this case, in my opinion. Improv is important, and often a lot more musically expressive than just playing what's written.

That said, it's great practice to sometimes learn the solos from players you like. When I improvise, I play the stuff I can play. Right now, I'm working on a Gary Moore solo that I can't play. By doing it Gary's way, instead of mine, I'm learning some of his licks and techniques, using techniques I rarely use, and putting more tricks in my bag. (Specifically, I chose this piece cause I thought it would work on my bending, legato, and vibrato.) You can learn a heck of a lot by learning other people's solos, especially if they are players whose styles you want to emulate in your own solos.

Best,
Ande


   
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 cnev
(@cnev)
Famed Member
Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 4459
 

I'd say Ande has it right. There are alot of different opinions but at the least you should do both.

I tend to try the studio version first. I think it does alot of things especially for the newer player. It makes you really learn the techniques and it's impossible to fudge it, you either can play the part as written or you can't.

When I hear alot of people say that playing the studio version is a crutch or someone can just listen to the record maybe that's true but it takes skill to play those solo's (unless they are really easy) and my personal opinion is that alot of those people say that because they can't actually do it, so they put the twist on it that I'm making it my own.

Sure they are making it there own and one out of a hundred might even be worth listening to but most are just a stripped down simplified version that sux.

If you are playing in a rock cover band I think most people want to hear the original solo just like on the record. that's is why we liked the song in the first place.

And by the way I am not an expert, nor am I close to an expert so this is just a persnal opinion here.

But once you have a bunch of these solo's down you can take what you've learned and start applying them to your own.

These things can and probably should be happening at the same time, learning note for note solo's and working on your own imrov.

I find that when I am improving my hands see much more relaxed and timing wise I'm OK but the solo's themself aren't anything to write home about. Sometimes I'll get an awesome riff or lick in there but I rarely can duplicate it. But when i play the solo's as written I do tend to get a bit tense always so concious of what the next note is suppsoed to be and how it needs to be played. If I pull it off then it sounds like the record if I don't it sounds like hack.

But this is something that is on the top of my list to improve.

"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!


   
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(@kroikey)
Reputable Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 232
 

I decided I wanted to learn the solo from 'New Love in Town - Europe'
Yey for Europes comeback :) I saw them at London in December and I'll be seeing them again in Newcastle UK in February for their new album tour. They're awesome live.

Im a fan of the old stuff as Kee Marcello and John Norum are just amazing melodic shredders, always had me in awe as a young'un. Try EuropetheBand.com and check the forums. People seem to trade tabs on their fairly often. The chord sheets are easy to find too, so you could probably use that as a basis to work out the solo.


   
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(@diceman)
Reputable Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 407
 

Where do guitarists stand on improvising solos instead of learning the studio recorded versions?
I have to admit I enjoy this more and weirdly this is something I am able to do by ear given that I've listened to the track a few times I now know roughly where it is played on the neck, so I can see the shape in my head.

Is this something that is frowned up for someone learning. Appreciate your opinions. :roll:

This is obviously a very opinionated topic . Since you asked , my opinion is that if a song has a very recognizable solo it should be played as close as possible to the original . My reasoning for this is that you wouldn't cover a song and sing the lyrics with a totally different melody , would you ? People would expect to hear the melody sung as originally written . Why is the guitar solo different ?
That being said I believe note for note solos aren't absolutely necessary and something done in the style of the artist is completely acceptable if it captures the feel of the song . What I don't like to hear is someone playing a bunch of scales disguised as a guitar solo . A solo has to say something other than " Look how fast I can play !"

If I claim to be a wise man , it surely means that I don't know .


   
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(@zebrasteve)
Active Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 11
 

Good to hear your sticking with playing the guitar. I would suggest that you structure your practice sessions a bit. Try to have a set amount of time for things you want to learn. Do you want to learn pentatonic scales, then spend 10 mins at each practice session learning the scale. Work slowly and use a metronome to learn how to play in time. Start with the first position then the 2nd, 3rd ect... Then when you get all of the positions down then increase the tempo until you can play the entire scale in all positions at different tempos.

Also allow for a bit of fun at each practice session. Once you go through your routine then start to learn songs. Try to play everything that is playing on the radio also it is a good idea to get together with other guitar players and play and have a good time.

Stop by Steve's web site and get free online guitar instructional videos and other cool stuff for guitarist. http://www.zebramusic.com


   
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