I'm trying to think of one instance where being the slowest is preferable.
I can think of exactly one, but don't want to get banned from the forum by discussing it. :oops:
On a serious note, I've got a backing track, only drums, that lays down a measure of quarter notes, then 5 blank measures. Then one, then five.
On good days, I'm still pretty near on time when it rolls around. Not close on bad days.
12 bars? Good practice, but I'm not gonna go there yet.
Ande
i was just trying to highlight the importance of accuracy, rather than playing fastest or slowest - that's a pretty irrelevant marker, no matter the tempo if you're playing out of time when you're supposed to be playing on time, it'll sound bad. It just amuses me that threads on playing fastest get loads of comments, both positive and negative about that practice, when there's less interest in playing slowly. kinda figured the detractors of the playing-fast school would be a bit more vocal about playing slowly well.
I wanna be able to play accurately at all tempos.
i was just trying to highlight the importance of accuracy, rather than playing fastest or slowest - . . . It just amuses me that threads on playing fastest get loads of comments . . .
I don't post anything on threads about playing scales fast . . . because I can't . . . play scales fast.
So I was thankful for your post on playing scales slowly . . . so I did . . . post on playing slowly.
It's the rock that gives the stream its music . . . and the stream that gives the rock its roll.
i was just trying to highlight the importance of accuracy, rather than playing fastest or slowest - that's a pretty irrelevant marker, no matter the tempo if you're playing out of time when you're supposed to be playing on time, it'll sound bad.
Yes. Bad playing is bad playing, at any speed.
It just amuses me that threads on playing fastest get loads of comments, both positive and negative about that practice, when there's less interest in playing slowly. kinda figured the detractors of the playing-fast school would be a bit more vocal about playing slowly well.
Oh, I can be real vocal on this topic. I don't want to start a flame war with the speed demons on this site, however.
Accuracy is important, but it's not critical IMHO. Jimmy Page is not an especially "accurate" player at fast tempos. As far as I'm concerned, if you can't play well slowly, you can't play well fast. "Well" means "musically," which may be a little vague, but I think most of us recognize musical playing when we hear it. It is possible to play scales and exercises musically, at any tempo. It is all too common for guitarists to play unmusically at fast tempos. This includes some names which most of us would recognize.
Page plays well slowly, and he plays well fast -- regardless of his accuracy. He makes music, at any speed. Ability to play well slowly does not guarantee ability to play well fast -- but if I were auditioning guitar players, I'd listen for musicality, not speed. (Or accuracy, for that matter, although I'd rate it ahead of speed.)
Speed, in terms of music, is not an end unto itself.
"You can't write a chord ugly enough to say what you want to say sometimes, so you have to rely on a giraffe filled with whipped cream." - Frank Zappa
Musicality is hard to measure.
Lot of players have more feel than accuracy...but I guess that to play the stuff I want to play, it's better to be able to play accurately (at the tempo of my choice) and decide not to when I want, that to only be able to play sloppy.
I was surprised how many people really ripped on the thread about speed, though- for a LOT of styles of music, speed is important.
Amongst a lot of other things, I play metal.
SPEED IS PART OF THE GENRE.
Worrying about speed, and wanting to play things fast, isn't a bad thing. It's a necessary thing for a lot of the music I like.
There's more to any style than just speed, but most guitarists have to worry about speed, and to build speed, some of the time.
Best,
Ande
Musicality is hard to measure.
So is tone. That doesn't make it any less important.
Lot of players have more feel than accuracy...but I guess that to play the stuff I want to play, it's better to be able to play accurately (at the tempo of my choice) and decide not to when I want, that to only be able to play sloppy.
Sloppy playing is not the goal, of course. Accuracy is important. But relative to musicality, is accuracy/speed most important?
I was surprised how many people really ripped on the thread about speed, though- for a LOT of styles of music, speed is important.
Sure. Metal and bluegrass share that. It is possible to play those styles fast and musically. It is also possible just to play those styles fast, with no regard to musical content.
There's more to any style than just speed, but most guitarists have to worry about speed, and to build speed, some of the time.
My question is, which comes first? For many players, speed is clearly the paramount virtue, rather than musicality. I don't like those players -- don't like to hear them, don't like to share a stage or a practice room with them.
"You can't write a chord ugly enough to say what you want to say sometimes, so you have to rely on a giraffe filled with whipped cream." - Frank Zappa
Interesting. Once I read it was very important to practice both limits, upper and lower, fast and slow practice (I didn't remember where I did it). Perhaps it is easier to play faster to me. I can play comfortably at 50-60 bpm. When I go under that value I start to fail. And I think I am able to play slower with the bass than with the guitar.
My question is, which comes first? For many players, speed is clearly the paramount virtue, rather than musicality. I don't like those players -- don't like to hear them, don't like to share a stage or a practice room with them.
I hear you, Crow. Just because it's fast and loud doesn't mean it's music.
Which comes first, though- well, for me, all comes slowly. And to do it right, it all really comes at the same time. Every day, I do some speed work. I do some theory. I listen to a bunch of stuff. Do some ear training...developing musicality is a part of ALL of this...a slow, immeasurable part, but in there somewhere.
The thing I fail to understand is this. I work on all of those things. If I have a question about theory, I'll post it and get thoughtful insightful answers from y'all.
If I have a question or a thought about speed, some of youse will just rip on it and assume that it's the only thing I practice or care about.
Don't you practice dexterity/speed? Don't most? Bluegrass, Jazz, Metal, Classical...even styles that we don't think of as speedy are pretty fast for beginners.
Best,
Justin
Which comes first, though- well, for me, all comes slowly. And to do it right, it all really comes at the same time. Every day, I do some speed work. I do some theory. I listen to a bunch of stuff. Do some ear training...developing musicality is a part of ALL of this...a slow, immeasurable part, but in there somewhere.
That's what I'm trying to get at. You have stated it in a much more positive way than I did. :oops:
But...
The thing I fail to understand is this. I work on all of those things. If I have a question about theory, I'll post it and get thoughtful insightful answers from y'all.
If I have a question or a thought about speed, some of youse will just rip on it and assume that it's the only thing I practice or care about.
...none of this is personal. I don't assume anything about anyone's musicianship based on these posts. I stayed out of the "how fast can you play a scale" thread because I have no interest in comparing metronome speeds with anyone. In fact I just now read through that thread for the first time, and I was glad to see that other people made the point that speed is not the ultimate measure of musicianship, because that point needs to be made -- if not for you, then for less experienced players who just want to make their fingers go real fast.
"You can't write a chord ugly enough to say what you want to say sometimes, so you have to rely on a giraffe filled with whipped cream." - Frank Zappa
I'm a bit with Ande on this whole speed thing, sure speed doesn't mean musical but it doesn't mean NOT musical either and it always seems that you are either on one side of the fence or the other and most members here aren't into metal or some of the genres that use speed quite a bit so the responses tend to be on the negative side about speed.
But I think that there is a bit more to it than that. I'm sure if you went to a metal forum no one would be dissing you cuz you play fast so what does that mean.
So it comes down to a matter of opinion those that do and those that don't, but one thing that I have found very rarely is someone that can actually shred but says they don't sound musical so they don't do it anymore.
So some of the dislike for shredding to me comes from a subconcious realization that the person that says playing fast isn't musical are saying those things because they can't.
The reality is anything can be musical no matter what speed it's at, it's all in the ears of the listener, not one is going to tell you what is or isn't musical all they can tell you is what THEY consider musical.
This is not the forum to have a discussion on speed playing, the responses will be mostly negative and made by most people that can't do it in the first place.
"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!
I'm a bit with Ande on this whole speed thing, sure speed doesn't mean musical but it doesn't mean NOT musical either....
Did anyone say it does? Specifics?
But I think that there is a bit more to it than that. I'm sure if you went to a metal forum no one would be dissing you cuz you play fast so what does that mean.
Has anyone "dissed" anyone on this topic?...
...some of the dislike for shredding to me comes from a subconcious realization that the person that says playing fast isn't musical are saying those things because they can't.
...up to that particular comment, at least? :roll:
The reality is anything can be musical no matter what speed it's at, it's all in the ears of the listener, not one is going to tell you what is or isn't musical all they can tell you is what THEY consider musical.
Self-evident.
This is not the forum to have a discussion on speed playing, the responses will be mostly negative and made by most people that can't do it in the first place.
In my last band ("urban country"), I frequently played 16th/32nd note bass runs to "fill gaps" in the mix. Looking back, I was just showing off. I would play the gig much differently today. Please check your assumptions.
"You can't write a chord ugly enough to say what you want to say sometimes, so you have to rely on a giraffe filled with whipped cream." - Frank Zappa
Crow this wasn't meant toward anyone in particular but just MY personal assessment on the whole speed thing and the reponses I've seen on this board for years my assessment wasn't based on what was just posted here.
But now that you mentioned it you said:
There are innumerable guitar players out there who can play huge streams of warp-speed 64th notes with no musical content whatsoever.
Tell me how to interpret that statement...somehow it doesn't seem like a compliment?
"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!
...now that you mentioned it you said:
There are innumerable guitar players out there who can play huge streams of warp-speed 64th notes with no musical content whatsoever.
Tell me how to interpret that statement...somehow it doesn't seem like a compliment?
Wasn't aimed at anyone posting here, because I have no basis for that kind of judgment. Those players are out there, don't you agree?
Discussions of speed do seem to turn into p!ssing contests, don't they.
"You can't write a chord ugly enough to say what you want to say sometimes, so you have to rely on a giraffe filled with whipped cream." - Frank Zappa
I'm not a shredder I'm just defending their right to shred. To many times I see that and sure there are alot of cases where I would agree it might not sound musical but there are also many that are, but again we will make that decision based on our own personal ideas about musicality and what consitutes it.
And just because a blaze of 64th notes doesn't sound musical to US that doesn't mean it doesn't sound musical or isn't to those that like it.
It really comes down to whatever floats your boat.
"It's all about stickin it to the man!"
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll!
It really comes down to whatever floats your boat.
Yep. There's no accounting for taste. :)
"You can't write a chord ugly enough to say what you want to say sometimes, so you have to rely on a giraffe filled with whipped cream." - Frank Zappa
